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russian armor

Tric maps and peoples response

3 Jul 2019, 11:43 AM
#21
avatar of Lago

Posts: 2371

I know I’m repeating myself a bit, but I believe map makers should organize the actual games. Most people just play automatch because it’s quick and easy.


You're quite happy to demand more free work from people already doing free work for the community, aren't you?

Are you really surprised we've got like, two, three mappers left willing to put up with this community?
3 Jul 2019, 12:05 PM
#22
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 254

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Jul 2019, 11:43 AMLago


You're quite happy to demand more free work from people already doing free work for the community, aren't you?

Are you really surprised we've got like, two, three mappers left willing to put up with this community?


I’m demanding more free work? Okay then, they should do nothing. Just close down all mapping discussion.

/Thread
13 Jul 2019, 15:56 PM
#23
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2741 | Subs: 1

The desire for new maps in automatch is separate from the desire for new maps for CoH2. This nuance is something I see missed in these kinds of discussions. There are wildly popular maps and mods for CoH2. The difference with the Steam Workshop is that players get to choose.

People are very vocal about the features they don't like. It's not a great challenge to listen to that, nor to parse through the bull. From my experience the complaints people have about many maps are more to do with CoH2 mechanics than the specific map. But that is the thing: the onus is on the mapper to work around the limitations of CoH2 mechanics. It doesn't take expert players or 50+ replays of evidence to show a broken feature, a floating object, or a wonky bug.

It's harder for people to communicate the features that are working well for a map because they're busy playing the game on it. And that is the ultimate goal that mappers should be after: making a map people want to play the game on. Making a map you want people to play is something entirely different, and anathema to good content creation. At this point in the game, if there's ever going to be new maps made for automatch, then I think that mappers should collaborate in the early design phase, before hours of artistic energy are dumped into a map so moving a piece of green cover isn't like making Sophie's choice. Putting mappers in competition with each other I'm not sure has served the game or community well.

Barely anyone helped test Stadtschutt, and to this day I don't think it should've won nor been implemented into Automatch. But that's because I made that thing in 8 hours in the 11th hour of the contest. That abomination of a tacmap I made 20 minutes before submission deadline keeps me up at night. :P So much time and effort could be put in to improve and optimize that map, if only visually. But that's time and effort I don't have anymore, or rather ever had.

You can't get bent out of shape over criticism over a map, nor cast blame upon anyone on the state of a map if you're the one who made it. I feel bad that there's such an ugly map in 2v2 and that I had something to do with it. But at the same time I have zero animosity towards anyone in the community or at Relic for it. I've spent more time watching people play the map in obs mode or replays of maps after it was implemented and people don't love it, but they don't all hate it. There's changes I wish I could make, and errors I wish I could fix.

And that's the best any of us can hope for to be honest.
13 Jul 2019, 16:08 PM
#24
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 1266

The desire for new maps in automatch is separate from the desire for new maps for CoH2. This nuance is something I see missed in these kinds of discussions. There are wildly popular maps and mods for CoH2. The difference with the Steam Workshop is that players get to choose.

People are very vocal about the features they don't like. It's not a great challenge to listen to that, nor to parse through the bull. From my experience the complaints people have about many maps are more to do with CoH2 mechanics than the specific map. But that is the thing: the onus is on the mapper to work around the limitations of CoH2 mechanics. It doesn't take expert players or 50+ replays of evidence to show a broken feature, a floating object, or a wonky bug.

It's harder for people to communicate the features that are working well for a map because they're busy playing the game on it. And that is the ultimate goal that mappers should be after: making a map people want to play the game on. Making a map you want people to play is something entirely different, and anathema to good content creation. At this point in the game, if there's ever going to be new maps made for automatch, then I think that mappers should collaborate in the early design phase, before hours of artistic energy are dumped into a map so moving a piece of green cover isn't like making Sophie's choice. Putting mappers in competition with each other I'm not sure has served the game or community well.

Barely anyone helped test Stadtschutt, and to this day I don't think it should've won nor been implemented into Automatch. But that's because I made that thing in 8 hours in the 11th hour of the contest. That abomination of a tacmap I made 20 minutes before submission deadline keeps me up at night. :P So much time and effort could be put in to improve and optimize that map, if only visually. But that's time and effort I don't have anymore, or rather ever had.

You can't get bent out of shape over criticism over a map, nor cast blame upon anyone on the state of a map if you're the one who made it. I feel bad that there's such an ugly map in 2v2 and that I had something to do with it. But at the same time I have zero animosity towards anyone in the community or at Relic for it. I've spent more time watching people play the map in obs mode or replays of maps after it was implemented and people don't love it, but they don't all hate it. There's changes I wish I could make, and errors I wish I could fix.

And that's the best any of us can hope for to be honest.


Stadtschutt isn´t fundamentally bad though. I never veto it no matter what faction I play. It´s a good map with a few errors in detail IMO. Mainly pathing in the middle and a bit too much red/green cover for my liking.
13 Jul 2019, 18:09 PM
#25
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 4731 | Subs: 14



- Make your changes.
- Make a patch list
- upload and give me the link

--> in the next mappatch( in around 1-2 month) I can include it.
18 Jul 2019, 18:00 PM
#26
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2741 | Subs: 1



- Make your changes.
- Make a patch list
- upload and give me the link

--> in the next mappatch( in around 1-2 month) I can include it.


Like I said, I don't exactly have the time to devote to making these changes. If I miraculously have time to work on CoH2 maps in that window of time, sure I'll give it a shot.

I don't have any of the original files for the map, though maybe I can locate the zip files I sent to Relic back during the map contest...

Though with that in mind, to clarify, you mean upload the raw files and give you the link and not upload to the steam workshop? It'll be a longshot if I am able to do anything.

If I was able to (at the very least) generate a less god-awful tac map, do you think that would stand a chance of being implemented? I ask this not knowing exactly how you are actually involved with Relic these days.
Phy
18 Jul 2019, 19:03 PM
#27
avatar of Phy

Posts: 509 | Subs: 1

Map is as good as prypiat imo. So elevation is the least.

PS: Stuve now is banned from Tric's twitch channel. Welcome to the club.
18 Jul 2019, 22:00 PM
#28
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 4731 | Subs: 14



Like I said, I don't exactly have the time to devote to making these changes. If I miraculously have time to work on CoH2 maps in that window of time, sure I'll give it a shot.

I don't have any of the original files for the map, though maybe I can locate the zip files I sent to Relic back during the map contest...

Though with that in mind, to clarify, you mean upload the raw files and give you the link and not upload to the steam workshop? It'll be a longshot if I am able to do anything.

If I was able to (at the very least) generate a less god-awful tac map, do you think that would stand a chance of being implemented? I ask this not knowing exactly how you are actually involved with Relic these days.


I work normally with steamworkshop links and give it forward to relic.
Well would be shame only updating the tac map, when you know some other stuff is needed too. Then I think relic would prefer to make it in 1 run.

I have already again alot of rework maps already. So relic will be very busy already :D
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