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russian armor

[4v4] Static artillery balance

10 Apr 2019, 14:14 PM
#1
avatar of kingdun3284

Posts: 392

Axis side:
Ost:
5 commanders with reacon+single offmap to destroy ML152 itself
4 commanders with lefh to soft counter opponent's ML-20

OKW:
2 commanders with lefh to soft counter opponent's ML-20
Ally side:

Ally side:
Soviet:
6 commanders with ML-20 to soft counter opponent's lefh
1 commander with recon+single offmap to destroy lefh itself

USF:
Only 1 commander have barely strong enough off map (time on target which may not kill a lefh sometime) to destroy lefh(USF has non-doc recon) itself
No equivalent static artillery to counter lefh

UKF:
No off map+ recon combination to counter lefh.
No equivalent static artillery to counter lefh,

This time I won't say anything, because I know a lot of genius in this forum will tell me how balanced it is.

10 Apr 2019, 14:50 PM
#2
avatar of SeductiveCardbordBox

Posts: 591 | Subs: 1

The numbers of commanders is less important than the number of useful commanders.

That said, Ost and Soviet have the better options. Recon sweeps and heavy bombing is the way forwards.

UKF is totally gimped at recon, but it does have air supremacy in a generally good commander

USF has major recon but only one decent offmap strike to remove the gun

OKW is like UKF. It has the firepower and the recon but never together.
10 Apr 2019, 14:53 PM
#3
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

Yeah let's just completely ignore that Priests and Sextons exist or UKF's Concentration Barrage that can be called into the FoW. Or UKF Advanced Emplacements' Counter Battery ability. Or UKF's Commando Regiment that does have recon planes (with Assault Operation ability) and Air Supremacy Operation to bomb the howitzer (not cheap but it's there). Or USF Major arty that can usually take out a howitzer with some lucky scatter. Or IR Pathfinders Howitzer Barrage. Or that 2/3 Allied factions have access to AA that will instantly shoot down recon planes so they can't scout enemy howitzers.



This time I won't say anything, because I know a lot of genius in this forum will tell me how balanced it is.

To be frank it's probably better to say nothing at all if you have no idea what you're talking about and only provide obviously biased or incomplete comparisons.
10 Apr 2019, 15:15 PM
#4
avatar of Kirrik

Posts: 573

Yep, Sov is utterly screwed in 4v4 if it becomes arty fest, you're completely dependent on usf/ukf not being brainlets and selecting priest/sexton commanders to counter artillery spam. ML-20 might as well not exist with amount of recon+offmaps Ost has, Katys constantly getting wrecked by random LeFH barrages, its only matter of time before lucky shot connects.

One would expect new Sov commander have recon + offmap considering it's theme but nope, it gets no recon and bad version of PTAB

One has to wonder what lelic employees smoked when they desingned those Ost commanders, someone must've pointed out that insanely imbalanced to give each faction similar howitzers but have only 1 faction access to swarm of recon+offmap commanders while leaving other with nothing
10 Apr 2019, 15:20 PM
#5
avatar of SeductiveCardbordBox

Posts: 591 | Subs: 1

Plenty of good Soviet commanders have bombing runs and your whole team should, between them, have a recon run.

Guards/recon/bombing run exists in a soviet commander too if you can't risk your team remembering to bring it. And you have non-doc Katty barrages.
10 Apr 2019, 17:23 PM
#6
avatar of Mongal

Posts: 102

Yeah let's just completely ignore that Priests and Sextons exist or UKF's Concentration Barrage that can be called into the FoW. Or UKF Advanced Emplacements' Counter Battery ability. Or UKF's Commando Regiment that does have recon planes (with Assault Operation ability) and Air Supremacy Operation to bomb the howitzer (not cheap but it's there). Or USF Major arty that can usually take out a howitzer with some lucky scatter. Or IR Pathfinders Howitzer Barrage. Or that 2/3 Allied factions have access to AA that will instantly shoot down recon planes so they can't scout enemy howitzers.




To be frank it's probably better to say nothing at all if you have no idea what you're talking about and only provide obviously biased or incomplete comparisons.



Priest and Sextons. They are good but can be countered with a Lefh with counter battery activated. A click and ignore counter.

UKF's Concentration Barrage that can be called into the FoW. No it cant this was changed ages ago.

UKF Advanced Emplacements' Counter Battery ability. Is worthless on the majority of 4v4 maps as it has a limited range.

UKF's Commando Regiment. Agreed

USF Major/IR Pathfinders Barrage. If you can sneak one of these units through enemy lines against a good team in a 4v4 game to a Lefh outside there base then you must have some extremely expensive glasses.

Your last sentence read again while looking in the mirror.



10 Apr 2019, 17:24 PM
#7
10 Apr 2019, 17:25 PM
#8
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 2257 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Apr 2019, 17:23 PMMongal



Priest and Sextons. They are good but can be countered with a Lefh with counter battery activated





LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

10 Apr 2019, 17:28 PM
#9
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2977 | Subs: 3

Each day in the coh2 balance forums tells a different story :D
10 Apr 2019, 18:00 PM
#10
avatar of Bizrock

Posts: 206

Ok, I'm tryng to not cringe

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Apr 2019, 17:23 PMMongal

Priest and Sextons. They are good but can be countered with a Lefh with counter battery activated. A click and ignore counter.


Maybe, maybe, Priest and sextons are mobile artillery and can move after the barrage, maybe.

I will just say some brit off-map artillery that the OP forgot

Air Supremacy Operation
Concentration Barrage
Concentrated Artillery Operation
Precision Barrage
Mortar Cover

And now the recon options

Early Warning
Field Recovery Operation
Designate Command Vehicle
Forward Observation Post
Assault
11 Apr 2019, 01:25 AM
#11
avatar of kingdun3284

Posts: 392

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Apr 2019, 18:00 PMBizrock
Ok, I'm tryng to not cringe



Maybe, maybe, Priest and sextons are mobile artillery and can move after the barrage, maybe.

I will just say some brit off-map artillery that the OP forgot

Air Supremacy Operation
Concentration Barrage
Concentrated Artillery Operation
Precision Barrage
Mortar Cover

And now the recon options

Early Warning
Field Recovery Operation
Designate Command Vehicle
Forward Observation Post
Assault

Air supremacy, no proper recon in this commander. RNG is needed to recon and RNG is needed to hit the lefh.

Concentration barrage, still, no proper recon with this commander. Early warning only light up territory next to ur front line.

Precision Barrage, no recon in this commander.

Mortar Cover, are you joking?

Not even a sector assault can kill a static artillery that well placed.

I think you guys must be genius and play 4v4 a lot more than me that can sneak in a sniper to throw a arttilery flare in port of Hamburg or red ball express right out side axis base and now try to persuade me it is possible and easy to counter lefh when axis player can effortlessly counter ML 20 with a click of SDB or just build lefh to fire back.
11 Apr 2019, 05:30 AM
#12
avatar of TheGentlemenTroll

Posts: 1044 | Subs: 1

Axis side:

UKF:
No off map+ recon combination to counter lefh.



I guess commando regiment isnt a thing anymore.
11 Apr 2019, 07:06 AM
#13
avatar of Musti

Posts: 203


I think you guys must be genius and play 4v4 a lot more than me that can sneak in a sniper to throw a arttilery flare in port of Hamburg or red ball express right out side axis base and now try to persuade me it is possible and easy to counter lefh when axis player can effortlessly counter ML 20 with a click of SDB or just build lefh to fire back.


It doesn't take a genius to realise that there are 3 other players on your team, and if you juuust work together...
I mean, fair enough axis have it "easier" (because of how much recon and offmaps they get), but with a little bit of teamwork (you know, like you should have in TEAM games) you can match/overcome axis when it comes to artillery
11 Apr 2019, 07:32 AM
#14
avatar of kingdun3284

Posts: 392

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Apr 2019, 07:06 AMMusti


It doesn't take a genius to realise that there are 3 other players on your team, and if you juuust work together...
I mean, fair enough axis have it "easier" (because of how much recon and offmaps they get), but with a little bit of teamwork (you know, like you should have in TEAM games) you can match/overcome axis when it comes to artillery

We actually use a term to describe "one side is easier, another isn't "
,it's imbalance.
11 Apr 2019, 07:34 AM
#15
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8


We actually use a term to describe "one side is easier, another isn't "
,it's imbalance.

Easier doesn't mean better.
USF is much easier to play then soviets, but they aren't really any stronger.
Ost is also pretty easy to play, but as you probably realize, its not on top of balance ladder.
11 Apr 2019, 09:36 AM
#16
avatar of Bizrock

Posts: 206


Air supremacy, no proper recon in this commander. RNG is needed to recon and RNG is needed to hit the lefh.

Concentration barrage, still, no proper recon with this commander. Early warning only light up territory next to ur front line.

Precision Barrage, no recon in this commander.

Mortar Cover, are you joking?

Not even a sector assault can kill a static artillery that well placed.

I think you guys must be genius and play 4v4 a lot more than me that can sneak in a sniper to throw a arttilery flare in port of Hamburg or red ball express right out side axis base and now try to persuade me it is possible and easy to counter lefh when axis player can effortlessly counter ML 20 with a click of SDB or just build lefh to fire back.


I'm trying to help you, really, don't be salty.
Any allied faction has enough tools to counter any Axis Static artillery and axis have tools to deal with it too.
And for god sake, artillery is not everything in team games.

I'm not the best player in the server, but not the worst https://imgur.com/w7JNn1U
11 Apr 2019, 10:38 AM
#17
avatar of Grim

Posts: 1093

Swapping counter artillery on the Lefh for something a bit more micro-intensive would be a good start.

I wouldn't be opposed to an upgrade for static artillery which improved durability but reduced range. So you can have your arty by your base where it is safer but can still be deleted by off-maps OR you can have a stronger emplacement but it has to be much closer to the action and have a munitions investment to upgrade.

11 Apr 2019, 13:19 PM
#18
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243



one suggestion for you:
1. build howitzer
2. if you see any enemy static lefhs > save the position in your brain
3. barrage it with your own mobile arty
4. when he starts to shots on you: drive away and build 2-3 mobile howitzer to kill the lefhs first.
5. profit
11 Apr 2019, 13:54 PM
#19
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2977 | Subs: 3

Axis side:
Ost:
5 commanders with reacon+single offmap to destroy ML152 itself
4 commanders with lefh to soft counter opponent's ML-20

OKW:
2 commanders with lefh to soft counter opponent's ML-20
Ally side:

Ally side:
Soviet:
6 commanders with ML-20 to soft counter opponent's lefh
1 commander with recon+single offmap to destroy lefh itself

USF:
Only 1 commander have barely strong enough off map (time on target which may not kill a lefh sometime) to destroy lefh(USF has non-doc recon) itself
No equivalent static artillery to counter lefh

UKF:
No off map+ recon combination to counter lefh.
No equivalent static artillery to counter lefh,

This time I won't say anything, because I know a lot of genius in this forum will tell me how balanced it is.



Why do OKW and USF not have a sniper?
Why do brits only have 1 heavy tank callin?
Why do some factions not have a nondoc flamer or artillery?
Why...



Ever heard of assymmetrical design? Btw comparing the amount of abilities is BS anyway as soviets and Wehr have like twice as much or even more commanders as all the other factions.

Static howitzers can only be a threat in teamgames, and there you have a teammate who can pick a doctrine to destroy howitzers. And guess what, it is exactly what happens with Howitzers every game. They are irrelevant because they always get destroyed instantly by an offmap strike. No matter if Soviet, Wehr or OKW howitzer
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