I think you misunderstood, i meant every squad can frontally charge VICKERS and nade it. Vipper said in earlier post that the problem is with volks, wich is bullshi.
So in your opinion pioneers can frontally attack a vickers and grenade.
OK.
Vickers need suppression
8 Mar 2019, 09:14 AM
#21
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
So in your opinion pioneers can frontally attack a vickers and grenade.
OK.
8 Mar 2019, 09:15 AM
#22
Posts: 392
No, just remove bonus range from vickers and give it supression, problem solved.
Yup, we don't need trash bonus range that unlock behind vet 1. It's a MG, it has to suppress squad. Bonus is redundant when It can't even perform its duty.
8 Mar 2019, 09:16 AM
#23
Posts: 528 | Subs: 1
So in your opinion pioneers can frontally attack a vickers and grenade.
OK.
No squads wothout granades cant throw granades.
8 Mar 2019, 09:17 AM
#24
Posts: 392
So in your opinion pioneers can frontally attack a vickers and grenade.
OK.
Basically you can blob strum and frontally pass through it without the second squad getting pinned. Vicker can only pin the squad it targeted after second burst.
8 Mar 2019, 09:24 AM
#25
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
No squads wothout granades cant throw granades.
I suggest that test in cheat mod then because PG, Grenadiers and even assault grenadier with sprint that attempted to grenade a Vickers that was facing them thru grey cover all failed to throw a grenade...
8 Mar 2019, 10:03 AM
#26
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Ill do some test this evening. I csnt believe that works. Im 100% sure that you will get suppressed if you xharge max range (which is greater than the sight range of the mg)
Let me guess the result of the test.
Every MG is able to stop any squad charging frontally if they do so through grey cover, with fog of war removed (so you have vision at max range).
What probably happens in game:
-You don't have vision so you start shooting at MGs vision range.
-Through mid game to late game, grey cover disappears transforming into yellow cover.
-Sometimes reload cycles screws you. If you can't suppress in 2/3 bursts, the MG sucks.
-Squad charging is not at full health. Killing models on approach on first burst makes it to take longer to suppress a unit.
If you don't hit vet2 with vickers, you are screwed in the late game as far as suppressing squads go.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
8 Mar 2019, 10:11 AM
#27
Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1
Let me guess the result of the test.
Every MG is able to stop any squad charging frontally if they do so through grey cover, with fog of war removed (so you have vision at max range).
What probably happens in game:
-You don't have vision so you start shooting at MGs vision range.
-Through mid game to late game, grey cover disappears transforming into yellow cover.
-Sometimes reload cycles screws you. If you can't suppress in 2/3 bursts, the MG sucks.
-Squad charging is not at full health. Killing models on approach on first burst makes it to take longer to suppress a unit.
If you don't hit vet2 with vickers, you are screwed in the late game as far as suppressing squads go.
We need to assume that one uses his mg like it should be used, maxed range and not vision range. You wont test JLI in cqb for that reason too.
Ive planned to use yellow craters to simulate mid-lategame terrain.
8 Mar 2019, 11:02 AM
#28
Posts: 392
I can 100% sure MG42 can suppress all kind of ally blob frontally from preventing them to throw nades frontally even with vision range only. Not to mention mg42 bunker s vision range = max range. So in comparison, MG 42 do its job but Vickers dont
We need to assume that one uses his mg like it should be used, maxed range and not vision range. You wont test JLI in cqb for that reason too.
Ive planned to use yellow craters to simulate mid-lategame terrain.
8 Mar 2019, 11:10 AM
#29
Posts: 392
Let me guess the result of the test.
Every MG is able to stop any squad charging frontally if they do so through grey cover, with fog of war removed (so you have vision at max range).
What probably happens in game:
-You don't have vision so you start shooting at MGs vision range.
-Through mid game to late game, grey cover disappears transforming into yellow cover.
-Sometimes reload cycles screws you. If you can't suppress in 2/3 bursts, the MG sucks.
-Squad charging is not at full health. Killing models on approach on first burst makes it to take longer to suppress a unit.
If you don't hit vet2 with vickers, you are screwed in the late game as far as suppressing squads go.
yup,It is not like wehr having ultra vision with pioneers. So testing vicker in max range is kinda unrealistic.
8 Mar 2019, 11:35 AM
#30
Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1
I can 100% sure MG42 can suppress all kind of ally blob frontally from preventing them to throw nades frontally even with vision range only. Not to mention mg42 bunker s vision range = max range. So in comparison, MG 42 do its job but Vickers dont
No one denies mg 42 beeing better than vickers. Its about fullfilling its intented role. If you want to buff vickers to mg42 level you would need to strip something off like bolster squads.
8 Mar 2019, 11:48 AM
#31
Posts: 591 | Subs: 1
No one denies mg 42 beeing better than vickers. Its about fullfilling its intented role. If you want to buff vickers to mg42 level you would need to strip something off like bolster squads.
Really.
Making a machine gun do the one thing a machine gun is supposed to do means we need to totally gut an unrelated pillar of UKF gameplay
Does this mean we also need to strip away the ost commander that gets 5 man gren squads?
8 Mar 2019, 11:48 AM
#32
Posts: 5279
No one denies mg 42 beeing better than vickers. Its about fullfilling its intented role. If you want to buff vickers to mg42 level you would need to strip something off like bolster squads.
Or
Now hear me out...
OR have a unit.... Now here is where things get radical... Do the job its supposed to do.
I know it's nuts, an MG stopping even a lone squad, but if the brit wanted raw dps they would just grab another Tommie squad.
The job of the vickers is to stop massed infantry. It fails at that task. Full stop.
No "uuuuuhhhhg but bolster!!!!!"
It doesn't do its job.
By your logic the mg42 could have all the supression of an AT gun because "waaaaaaaaah bunkerzon grens!!" that's not how this works
A unit should preform its job properly and then be adjusted accordingly to faction flare, flavor and balance.
An MG SHOULD stop infantry frontally charging it, regardless of faction. The OST once can do it better, but all of them should do it at the very least.
#stalinwept
8 Mar 2019, 11:52 AM
#33
Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1
Or
Now hear me out...
OR have a unit.... Now here is where things get radical... Do the job its supposed to do.
I know it's nuts, an MG stopping even a lone squad, but if the brit wanted raw dps they would just grab another Tommie squad.
The job of the vickers is to stop massed infantry. It fails at that task. Full stop.
No "uuuuuhhhhg but bolster!!!!!"
It doesn't do its job.
By your logic the mg42 could have all the supression of an AT gun because "waaaaaaaaah bunkerzon grens!!" that's not how this works
A unit should preform its job properly and then be adjusted accordingly to faction flare, flavor and balance.
An MG SHOULD stop infantry frontally charging it, regardless of faction. The OST once can do it better, but all of them should do it at the very least.
Thats why i wrote its about fullfilling its intentend role? Huh?
Ennglish is not my mother tongue, so i may have wrote it out badly, sorry.
Whatever, im out.
8 Mar 2019, 12:01 PM
#34
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
yup,It is not like wehr having ultra vision with pioneers. So testing vicker in max range is kinda unrealistic.
Actually Tommies get vision bonus with pyrotechnics and with vet 1 when in cover.
I have tested Vicker with normal vision and it was able to stop PG, grenadier and assault grenadier with sprint before throwing a grenade when they charged frontally in gray cover.
So they claim (made by ddd)that any squad can attack a Vicker frontally and throw a grenade is simply false.
8 Mar 2019, 12:18 PM
#35
Posts: 392
Actually Tommies get vision bonus with pyrotechnics and with vet 1 when in cover.
I have tested Vicker with normal vision and it was able to stop PG, grenadier and assault grenadier with sprint before throwing a grenade when they charged frontally in gray cover.
So they claim (made by ddd)that any squad can attack a Vicker frontally and throw a grenade is simply false.
Actually his claim is correct in team game, because you never face a single squad running into the MG. Any blob with 2 squad or above can pass through it easily.
8 Mar 2019, 12:29 PM
#36
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
Actually his claim is correct in team game, because you never face a single squad running into the MG. Any blob with 2 squad or above can pass through it easily.
No his claim is that any one can squad can attack vickers frontally and throw grenades at and it simply false.
Exaggeration do not promote a balance debate.
Now if you are talking about more than squad it is a different story.
8 Mar 2019, 12:50 PM
#37
Posts: 528 | Subs: 1
I can 100% sure MG42 can suppress all kind of ally blob frontally from preventing them to throw nades frontally even with vision range only. Not to mention mg42 bunker s vision range = max range. So in comparison, MG 42 do its job but Vickers dont
Slight correction here, mg42 bunker sight range is bigger than its firing range. I guess its recon unit or some shit.
8 Mar 2019, 13:07 PM
#38
Posts: 4474
Bring suppression to 0.008 and aoe suppression to 0.007
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
8 Mar 2019, 19:16 PM
#39
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
We need to assume that one uses his mg like it should be used, maxed range and not vision range. You wont test JLI in cqb for that reason too.
Ive planned to use yellow craters to simulate mid-lategame terrain.
I agree with how the unit should be used. But i think we all expect single MG positioned perfectly to stop single squad charging frontally from vision range. That's the whole point of reducing grenade range on units which are suppressed.
It's unrealistic to expect a single none supported MG to stop 3 or more squads. Frontally in a blob or not. It's not out of the world to expect a single MG to stop a single unit charging through it's arc. With or without vision.
There are laboratory tests and realistic expectations.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
8 Mar 2019, 19:42 PM
#40
1 
Posts: 3052 | Subs: 15
lol vickers is actually worthless as all hell. the amount of times i've had volks just mob forward aimlessly ESPECIALLY WITH STGS and beat it out is unreal. I actually end up glad they end up taking it off my hands if they end up stealing it.
Only get decent return from it if im playing complete morons.
Admitedly ive mostly played brit 4's lately but i honestly just stopped building it. The trench + garrison bonus is worthless in anything over 1v1, probably worthless there too but whatever... just make it a normal mg... FFS id pay 400 mp for an MG42 as brits.
Speaking of the mg42 MAN thats an MG that does its job... same with the 50 cal, only took years of USF crying that it died frontally to get that thing to work semi decent, wonder how long itll take to make the vickers a non gimmicky normal HMG
Only get decent return from it if im playing complete morons.
Admitedly ive mostly played brit 4's lately but i honestly just stopped building it. The trench + garrison bonus is worthless in anything over 1v1, probably worthless there too but whatever... just make it a normal mg... FFS id pay 400 mp for an MG42 as brits.
Speaking of the mg42 MAN thats an MG that does its job... same with the 50 cal, only took years of USF crying that it died frontally to get that thing to work semi decent, wonder how long itll take to make the vickers a non gimmicky normal HMG
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