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Pack Howie Airdrop

17 Feb 2019, 02:21 AM
#21
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2


+1

I don't like raid because it feels really superfluous. You can just decrew vehicles to cap because realistically the only time you'll be able to cap with raid is when there's no contact. Any AT and you have to run away, and any infantry with snares you also have to run away. I guess if his army is only jaegers you can cap stuff with it. The sight range bonus is nice, but the commander is already so muni heavy and pathfinders have more than enough sight range already. I'd much rather see it replaced with suply drops.

Do this many people really dislike raid? Early m20s get free reign to cap 3-4 points in the duration, and the ability can later be used for comically fast back capping or, if you have multiple light vehicles, mass capping of the map. It makes a single light vehicle have the capping power of 3 squads, and that just really helps for keeping up map pressure.
17 Feb 2019, 02:59 AM
#22
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

Yea it's not JUST capping, it's fast capping and no risk to gifting your enemy a free vehicle. The Los is nice as it can be used offensively or defensively. Only issue with it is as pointed out (by me as well) the commander is wicked muni heavy. I wouldn't want to lose an ability that raises skill cap for a boring "yay more resources now I can do the same thing as any other commander but sooner!" type ability.

Trading the I&R arty for something a bit smaller (like an off map mortar barrage) and unlocking more powerful ones with vet could be nifty and allow them to be used without 120mu stockpiled.
17 Feb 2019, 04:01 AM
#23
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053


Do this many people really dislike raid? Early m20s get free reign to cap 3-4 points in the duration, and the ability can later be used for comically fast back capping or, if you have multiple light vehicles, mass capping of the map. It makes a single light vehicle have the capping power of 3 squads, and that just really helps for keeping up map pressure.

Is the capping significantly faster? Tbh I don't think I've ever even used the ability because I'd rather have another BAR or throw another nade.
17 Feb 2019, 04:23 AM
#24
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2


Is the capping significantly faster? Tbh I don't think I've ever even used the ability because I'd rather have another BAR or throw another nade.

I think it was set to 250% cap speed (it was somewhere between 2-3x). It's insanely fast.
17 Feb 2019, 04:58 AM
#25
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053


I think it was set to 250% cap speed (it was somewhere between 2-3x). It's insanely fast.

Oh shoot. I'll play around with it now XD
17 Feb 2019, 15:39 PM
#26
avatar of mons7erz

Posts: 90

Im on the fence, i personally disliked the removal of the AT gun and replaced with the howie.
I mean dont get me wrong, i love the howie, but from the meta ive played in my tier, its very LV heavy, and since the AT damage for the greyhound has been changed from 60 to 40, it does make stopping LVs like a Luchs more of a challenge. However, i do like getting a free pak howie without having to spend the extra fuel for it. It does provide decent team support, and saves you 340 MP, and if crewed by paras can be reinforced in the field, so i am on the fence about it, but its not excessively bad or good, i do wish the AT package for paras was a little cheaper, but given how amazingly mobile they are i understand why they cost an arm and a leg. Out of curiosity, whats the cost of 2 schreks for pgrens? 120?
17 Feb 2019, 16:50 PM
#27
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

Oh hay, it's almost as if the way the commander system works is problematic.

Before you can pick the right commander for a game, you have to pick the right loadout before the game.

As a result, loadouts become pretty static and stable real quick after patch/implementation.
17 Feb 2019, 21:16 PM
#28
avatar of Flyingsmonster

Posts: 155

I have to say, after continuing to play Recon Support post the nerfs, I don't mind not having the AT gun in the airdrop, and the pack howitzer is nice. That said, I still don't think the nerfs are deserved since I do still see my pack howie get de-crewed instantly fairly often, then again I am crewing them with REs which drop like flies no matter what.

The other changes to Recon I've grown more used to, the 50s delay for I&R is fine, the issue is they're still overpriced at 290mp. Lower the cost to a reasonable 270mp and it will be fine.

I've simply changed my strat to go Captain instead of Lt. and just skip MGs altogether instead of investing in Lt. Just getting a 270mp AT gun from Captain is all you need, and airdropping in the pack howie rather than building it is nice, and compliments a mortar squad well so you can focus your mortar completely on smoking, and barraging with your pack.

17 Feb 2019, 21:22 PM
#29
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

I have to say, after continuing to play Recon Support post the nerfs, I don't mind not having the AT gun in the airdrop, and the pack howitzer is nice. That said, I still don't think the nerfs are deserved since I do still see my pack howie get de-crewed instantly fairly often, then again I am crewing them with REs which drop like flies no matter what.


Have you tried crewing them with the Support Paras? Para-crewed team weapons can reinforce from Pathfinder beacons.
17 Feb 2019, 21:26 PM
#30
avatar of |GB| The Hooligan486
Senior Referee Badge

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1

Dislaimer i havent read this thread.

I think the pak howi is fine, however the drop is still very cheap.
17 Feb 2019, 21:28 PM
#31
avatar of Flyingsmonster

Posts: 155

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Feb 2019, 21:22 PMLago


Have you tried crewing them with the Support Paras? Para-crewed team weapons can reinforce from Pathfinder beacons.


Honestly, that's just too much of a manpower sink for me, since they cost 30mp to re-enforce making it a really expensive pack howie, especially with how prone to wiping it is now. RE are only 20mp to re-enforce a pack howie, and since it's behind my lines most of the time it can stay reasonably safe. That said, the moment it's flanked by a rifle nade, or any other sort of arty / nade it will be wiped very quickly. Also, airborne take forever to re-enforce too.

I never really use beacon re-enforce anyways, I usually have an ambulance out by the time the airdrop is ready to be called in and I'll just call it in next to my ambulance to re-enforce.
17 Feb 2019, 21:42 PM
#32
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1



Honestly, that's just too much of a manpower sink for me, since they cost 30mp to re-enforce making it a really expensive pack howie, especially with how prone to wiping it is now. RE are only 20mp to re-enforce a pack howie, and since it's behind my lines most of the time it can stay reasonably safe. That said, the moment it's flanked by a rifle nade, or any other sort of arty / nade it will be wiped very quickly. Also, airborne take forever to re-enforce too.

I never really use beacon re-enforce anyways, I usually have an ambulance out by the time the airdrop is ready to be called in and I'll just call it in next to my ambulance to re-enforce.


28.
Paratrooper models cost the same as Riflemen.
REs are 25 btw.
18 Feb 2019, 08:21 AM
#33
avatar of Stark

Posts: 626 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Feb 2019, 16:34 PMLago
Without the muni cost and Pack Howie in the airdrop, you'd be able to get AT Paras pretty cheap. And AT Paras are really good.


Until 3 CPs you will manage to gather 180 ammo anyway. And yes, paras with zook upgrade are insane which people tend to forget. Before there was no need to upgrade them becouse of AT gun included in a airdrop. Currently AT upgrade makes much more sense.

Plus plz remember that paras gain cammo with zooks which sync with greyhound really well
18 Feb 2019, 08:34 AM
#34
avatar of Stark

Posts: 626 | Subs: 1


Do this many people really dislike raid? Early m20s get free reign to cap 3-4 points in the duration, and the ability can later be used for comically fast back capping or, if you have multiple light vehicles, mass capping of the map. It makes a single light vehicle have the capping power of 3 squads, and that just really helps for keeping up map pressure.


I wouldn't said that ability is useless, it's just general design of a commander makes it less potent that other abilities.

Imo The Recon company has well design slots with plenty of abiltiies that require all type of resources which gives really diverse gameplay options. Simple spam of single ability blocks you from using others. Expect of Raid you have call-in arty barrage from pathfinders, Airborn drop cost 80 ammo + 120 ammo for LMG upgrade, 70 ammo costs greyhound 50cal, mine drop costs around 100 ammo, imagine you want also use granades and bar upgrades. It's huge ammo sink and Raidoperations are in the bottom of this queue\line so i understand people who said that they never used this ability.

On the other hand J4J has right, capping speed is huge and can be game changing in some situation.
18 Feb 2019, 15:43 PM
#35
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1

The one time Raid was Useful was double capping VPs with Scotts, thanks to their double smoke, pretty funny stuff.
18 Feb 2019, 18:33 PM
#36
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1

I've always enjoyed Pak Howie and it's nice to be able to use it in LT builds now. I'd feel better if they upped the Greyhound's AT damage back to 60 to facilitate Capt-less builds to make full use of the Howie drop. Now that AT gun isn't so available to the commander it's be more usable if Greyhound didn't struggle so hard vs. lowly 222s.
18 Feb 2019, 19:11 PM
#37
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

I've always enjoyed Pak Howie and it's nice to be able to use it in LT builds now. I'd feel better if they upped the Greyhound's AT damage back to 60 to facilitate Capt-less builds to make full use of the Howie drop. Now that AT gun isn't so available to the commander it's be more usable if Greyhound didn't struggle so hard vs. lowly 222s.


That's what the Stuart's for.
18 Feb 2019, 19:41 PM
#38
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Feb 2019, 19:11 PMLago


That's what the Stuart's for.


Stuart + Greyhound is a lot of fuel, but maybe it could work, I'll see if I can try it.
18 Feb 2019, 20:04 PM
#39
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

Stuart + Greyhound is a lot of fuel, but maybe it could work, I'll see if I can try it.


It's like OKW's choice between Luchs or Luchs-Puma. The Puma slows down medium armor, but gives you an immediate vehicular AT response.

Otherwise you're relying on handheld to support the Greyhound, which can work but isn't as safe a bet as a Stuart.
18 Feb 2019, 21:06 PM
#40
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Feb 2019, 19:11 PMLago


That's what the Stuart's for.
I don't want Greyhound to counter 222 as hard as a Stuart would (Abilities + 80 damage). 60 (or even 50) Damage would place Greyhound on perfect ratio of Fuel to damage ratio for LV damage and would mean that it wouldn't sometimes get countered by a vehicle that costs half as much fuel and is a no-brainer counter. 50 Damage would mean that it would take 7 shots to kill a 222 and 8 to kill a Luches - making it extremely inefficient as a LV counter still.
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