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Another JLI Idea

3 Jan 2019, 14:35 PM
#1
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

Jaeger Light Infantry are the hot topic of the balance forum at the moment, with their very high damage and low cost leading to spam and lots of angry forum posts.

Most of the suggestions involve toning down JLI's damage to cost ratio: pushing them up to 280-300 MP is the usual suggestion, with others involving toning down their ambush and sniping bonuses or increasing their munitions cost.

But what if you left their damage alone, and toned down their durability instead?

  • Jaeger Light Infantry squad size from 4 men to 3.
  • Sniper Rifle unlocked automatically.
  • Possibly increase their range slightly.

This'd keep JLI's performance pretty much the same in the role they're designed for: sitting at the back in a cover fight getting snipes, with other infantry screening for them.

However, they'd be more vulnerable to their counters (CQC and vehicles), making spamming them not viable at all. You'd need other squads to screen for them, much like protecting a sniper.

You could do something similar for Pathfinders too: drop their cost substantially, but reduce them to 3 men. That'd make them high damage, high LoS recon squads that can dish out a lot of damage but really don't want to be taking fire themselves.
3 Jan 2019, 15:11 PM
#2
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13477 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Jan 2019, 14:35 PMLago

IR pathfinder where 3 men and where buffed to 4 for a reason.

Reducing the close DPS of K98 of JLI would help allot in establishing them as long range inf with a weakness in CQC. (relative positioning)
3 Jan 2019, 15:18 PM
#3
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Jan 2019, 15:11 PMVipper

IR pathfinder where 3 men and where buffed to 4 for a reason.

Reducing the close DPS of K98 of JLI would help allot in establishing them as long range inf with a weakness in CQC. (relative positioning)


I&R Pathfinders had one sniper rifle with a 40% crit threshold. Even at 4 men they kinda suck.

3 man I&R Pathfinders with 0.9 cover accuracy, +50% accuracy First Strike bonus and 75% crit threshold'd probably be pretty good.
3 Jan 2019, 16:10 PM
#4
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13477 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Jan 2019, 15:18 PMLago


I&R Pathfinders had one sniper rifle with a 40% crit threshold. Even at 4 men they kinda suck.

3 man I&R Pathfinders with 0.9 cover accuracy, +50% accuracy First Strike bonus and 75% crit threshold'd probably be pretty good.

They die to easy from explosion especially since the bunch to become invisible. 3 men squad are problematic.
3 Jan 2019, 16:23 PM
#5
avatar of blancat

Posts: 810

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Jan 2019, 16:10 PMVipper

They die to easy from explosion especially since the bunch to become invisible. 3 men squad are problematic.



reducing kar98k close dps cant solve JLI problem

because they spamming and blobing with volks and allies infantries cant CQC with them especially tommies

nerf MP to 290, vs heavy cover bonus 90%->60%, increase recharge time will be answer



3 Jan 2019, 16:37 PM
#6
avatar of murky depths

Posts: 607

Wasn't there a big hub-bub over the 2man sniper team Soviets had. A 3 man 75% sniper team seems like we'd be walking backwards right into that.

Not that a 4man 75% sniper team is any better.
3 Jan 2019, 16:39 PM
#7
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358




reducing kar98k close dps cant solve JLI problem

because they spamming and blobing with volks and allies infantries cant CQC with them especially tommies

nerf MP to 290, vs heavy cover bonus 90%->60%, increase recharge time will be answer




did you mean, allied blobs cant cqc? riflemen are looking at you dissapointed.
Brenblobs dont need cqc since they delete anything at max range and IF a squad reaches midrange each of its models are already a collander...
3 Jan 2019, 16:46 PM
#8
avatar of some one

Posts: 935

I think to balance them they must spawn at enemy barracks
3 Jan 2019, 16:47 PM
#9
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13477 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Jan 2019, 16:10 PMVipper

They (pathfinders) die to easy from explosion especially since the bunch to become invisible. 3 men squad are problematic.



reducing kar98k close dps cant solve JLI problem

because they spamming and blobing with volks and allies infantries cant CQC with them especially tommies

nerf MP to 290, vs heavy cover bonus 90%->60%, increase recharge time will be answer

PLS do not quote me if what you are going to post is completely irrelevant.

I am talking about pathfinders you are ranting about JLI.
3 Jan 2019, 16:50 PM
#10
avatar of blancat

Posts: 810


did you mean, allied blobs cant cqc? riflemen are looking at you dissapointed.
Brenblobs dont need cqc since they delete anything at max range and IF a squad reaches midrange each of its models are already a collander...



Rifleman is expensive unit and cant do close combat anytime and low garand dmg(8) cant guarantee winnig in CQC while they are comming closer with damaged HP

u a right, brenblob is strong but cost is also high(weapon rack, 45x2 muni per tommies)

Also JLI&volks blob is dont need CQC beacause they delete anything at mid-max range with ignore cover

Even their cost is so low(dont need weapon rack, cheap stg44 and g43)

3 Jan 2019, 16:52 PM
#11
avatar of blancat

Posts: 810

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Jan 2019, 16:47 PMVipper



PLS do not quote me if what you are going to post is completely irrelevant.

I am talking about pathfinders you are ranting about JLI.



Reducing the close DPS of K98 of JLI would help allot in establishing them as long range inf with a weakness in CQC. (relative positioning)

i just talking about this


wrong quate is my bad
3 Jan 2019, 17:13 PM
#12
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

Wasn't there a big hub-bub over the 2man sniper team Soviets had. A 3 man 75% sniper team seems like we'd be walking backwards right into that.

Not that a 4man 75% sniper team is any better.

I was actually thinking about that today. Sprinting 2 models is too durable so here's 4 models that sprint and field spawn and can booby trap and can self heal and are 80mp cheaper...
3 Jan 2019, 17:36 PM
#13
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358


...
Even their cost is so low(dont need weapon rack, cheap stg44 and g43)

There is a thread about that, pls refer your concerns there. Here people is trying to have a civil conversation of how to balance JLI, but not with smashing complaints about JLI overperformance / cost efficiency.
Thanks

Edit:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/84756/increase-light-jaegars-price
3 Jan 2019, 17:44 PM
#14
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13477 | Subs: 1


Reducing the close DPS of K98 of JLI would help allot in establishing them as long range inf with a weakness in CQC. (relative positioning)

i just talking about this

wrong quate is my bad

Ok no problem,reducing the close DPS will not fix all the issues of JIL it will only fix one. Their performance Vs CQC units.
3 Jan 2019, 20:04 PM
#15
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Jan 2019, 15:18 PMLago


I&R Pathfinders had one sniper rifle with a 40% crit threshold. Even at 4 men they kinda suck.

3 man I&R Pathfinders with 0.9 cover accuracy, +50% accuracy First Strike bonus and 75% crit threshold'd probably be pretty good.

They didn't have any snipers IIRC. That's why they sucked so bad.

IMO JLI shouldn't have any close range effectiveness at all. Same goes for pathfinders but to a lesser degree since they don't have 1.15 accuracy and .9 accuracy agaisnt heavy cover with their sniper and a 50% acuracy bonus out of ambush camo and sprint and booby traps and medkits...
3 Jan 2019, 21:20 PM
#16
avatar of Baba

Posts: 600

im playing coh 2 alot and in all honesty, ive seen JLI spam only once on my own team (2v2) and it failed miserably. i never had any problems dealing with JLI neither. i get to read those numbers of accuracy and stuff but really, have you actually seen how it plays out in a real game? from what i have seen they are like every other infantry spam except they dont get to use at weaponry to counter vehicles. how does a jli squad perform against a greyhound, t34 or a flak halftrak? lemme guess: okw is so op, in the same moment they spam 20 jli squads they still have enough mp to recruit 15 raketenwerfer.
If i was relic i would tackle 20 other things before i consider jli a real problem
3 Jan 2019, 21:57 PM
#17
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Jan 2019, 21:20 PMBaba
im playing coh 2 alot and in all honesty, ive seen JLI spam only once on my own team (2v2) and it failed miserably. i never had any problems dealing with JLI neither. i get to read those numbers of accuracy and stuff but really, have you actually seen how it plays out in a real game? from what i have seen they are like every other infantry spam except they dont get to use at weaponry to counter vehicles. how does a jli squad perform against a greyhound, t34 or a flak halftrak? lemme guess: okw is so op, in the same moment they spam 20 jli squads they still have enough mp to recruit 15 raketenwerfer.
If i was relic i would tackle 20 other things before i consider jli a real problem

If you've played coh2 alot then you are familiar with "bleed" right? That's where you inflict manpower damage that the enemy has to replace. So sniper type units are VERY good at inflicting this "bleed". This is usually offset by a very fragile model set to inflict this bleed that Also costs about 50% more than a regular squad and takes much longer to build impacting field presence. This provides risk for the reward of bleed.

Know going forth from there:
Paying the same as a volks unit, but with the ability to spawn from buildings. (there goes the cost factor)
4 models (durability....)
Callin/building spawn (time factor)

Just because YOU have not faced it doesn't mean it's not problematic from a design and balance perspective.

And to add: the rakk costs 270mp. That's 50mp cheaper than a normal AT gun. Combined with the effectiveness of JLI and volks its plenty viable getting one out. Ag
3 Jan 2019, 22:09 PM
#18
avatar of Baba

Posts: 600

yes im familiar with mp bleed. thanks for ecucating me but all you do when talking about Jaegers is pointing out their strenghts, when in fact they also have downsites in versatility, surviveability ect.

ive said that i havent seen it on MY TEAM, i have played gainst jli pretty often and as long as noone shows prove of their incredible superiority, which i dont see, other than saying sth about numbers, i will not change my opinion.
I dont get why they are compared to pathfinders neither, since they have a completely different role and for that still perform quiet well (even against JLI)
3 Jan 2019, 22:13 PM
#19
avatar of Baba

Posts: 600

Just to make it clear. I dont care about JLI, they can be nerfed if you so wish, i dont use them either way. But since it became a trend lately to rage about them at any possiblility, i would like to mention that there are still basic game mechanics that have some serious flaws.
3 Jan 2019, 22:16 PM
#20
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

@Baba, i think you have a valid point about JLI, they are another infanty, an effective one but only that. Even LVs should stop the dominance of JLI.

The only downside of the topic and maybe no one is addressing is the fact that a strong infantry being blobbed is annoying, regardless of wich infantry is used (volks,JLI,IS,riflemen...) but JLI is the new bully in the neighborhood and thats why theyre hot.

Maybe pointing out that JLI spams forces allied factions to reply with another infantry spam since team weapons dont stand a chance is the real problem.
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