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Arty is utterly broken

4 Dec 2018, 20:52 PM
#1
avatar of Latch

Posts: 393

Its batshit OP in team games to the point even taking it out can be next to impossible at times. Im rank 22 in team games as UKF (Obviously) and the only games I lose outright is when the enemy, more specifically OKW goes fortification doctrine.

The LEFH is the same for OST but OKW get a free defense with it when they place it next to the schwer. All arty needs reworking to either reduce ROF or reduce the AOE Id say the damage is OK but the accuracy even out of FOW is quite good.

Same goes for all arty BTW Preists, etc they go on about unit preservation and then create something that can wipe out multiple squads if it hits at the right place at the right time!
4 Dec 2018, 21:07 PM
#2
avatar of Nosliw

Posts: 494

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Dec 2018, 20:52 PMLatch
Its batshit OP in team games to the point even taking it out can be next to impossible at times. Im rank 22 in team games as UKF (Obviously) and the only games I lose outright is when the enemy, more specifically OKW goes fortification doctrine.

The LEFH is the same for OST but OKW get a free defense with it when they place it next to the schwer. All arty needs reworking to either reduce ROF or reduce the AOE Id say the damage is OK but the accuracy even out of FOW is quite good.

Same goes for all arty BTW Preists, etc they go on about unit preservation and then create something that can wipe out multiple squads if it hits at the right place at the right time!


Soviets have IL-2 bombing strikes and endless recon abilities.

USF has a few off map arty abilities which couple with Major recon to take out LEFH.

UKF has precision arty from adv emplacements, 280mm off map from the croc doc, as ell as that OP airplane ability from commando.

Have you tried any of the above?
4 Dec 2018, 21:10 PM
#3
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 688

I agree that arty is cancer. Especially on 3v3/4v4 maps where armies are packed close together in corridors and have predictable paths or locations. And because in those games someone can get away with building 2-3 arty pieces while the rest of the team holds their front line. Organizing a counter (recon + offmap) can be hard in random games and factions like OKW barely have any proper offmaps or recon anyway.

Once the arty train starts rolling there's usually no stopping it. Infantry and vehicles randomly get obliterated, get wiped by random shells on retreat, get pummeled in the base, suffer hits on their way to the front forcing them to retreat instantly again, engineers get randomly vaporized while repairing stuff... It's an awful experience.


There should be a limit of 1 or 2 (no effect on 1v1s and 2v2s, big effect on team games which is good) per player.

All cooldown veterancy bonusses should be replaced. Artillery should be used strategically every now and then to prepare/support an assault or to repulse an enemy attack. Arty shouldn't be firing non-stop all over the map. Same for rocket arty.
4 Dec 2018, 21:29 PM
#4
avatar of TheGentlemenTroll

Posts: 763 | Subs: 1

As nosliw said always have a doctrine available to counter Arti spam in team games. IL2, Air Supremacy and the Time on Target all destroy Lefh's easily. Just ask teammates to recon theres like a 100% chance atleast one teammate has some sort of recon plane as allies.


If okw is required to have a doctrine to counter sim city in team games than I dont see why allies dont have to do the same against the Lefh. Plus those abilities come in doctrines that are like the best team game doctrines anyways so its not like you are losing anything by going IL2 or Air Supremacy. (You can even recon the entire map as the Commando Doctrine.)
4 Dec 2018, 23:49 PM
#5
avatar of Latch

Posts: 393

Saying that I should just counter it with another ability is missing the point completely.

As Sander said its the wiping potential that is the main problem with it, killing it is another. The arument to use the abilities falls flat on two things, firstly its muni, secondly it's time.

Lets say you upgrade brens, you get a squad with 2 brens, its mid game where vets usually at 3*, that squad gets murdered by an arty shell, you then have to spend another 90 munitions to get those brens back to stand a chance at finghting toe to toe with against a vet squad, or do you just wait for the muni to equate to 250 ish and use your ability for them to then, just rebuild the arty...

The commandos air raid doesn't always kill the arty, its scatter can sometimes only just decrew it!
5 Dec 2018, 07:04 AM
#6
avatar of MakiesKurisu

Posts: 78

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Dec 2018, 21:07 PMNosliw


Soviets have IL-2 bombing strikes and endless recon abilities.

USF has a few off map arty abilities which couple with Major recon to take out LEFH.

UKF has precision arty from adv emplacements, 280mm off map from the croc doc, as ell as that OP airplane ability from commando.

Have you tried any of the above?

None of sov commander have both off-map art and recon
The cheapest combo may be USF major recon planes+TOT barrage, 240 muni(180+60) for 400 mp (fuel ofen overflow in late games)
5 Dec 2018, 07:32 AM
#7
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 3535 | Subs: 1


None of sov commander have both off-map art and recon
The cheapest combo may be USF major recon planes+TOT barrage, 240 muni(180+60) for 400 mp (fuel ofen overflow in late games)

That is incorrect, check Soviet roster again. You will find reckon planes and IL-2 bombing in the same commander.

In addition its does not really matter in 4vs4 game.Player A can provide the reckon player B can provide the off map.
5 Dec 2018, 07:50 AM
#8
avatar of NaOCl

Posts: 119


None of sov commander have both off-map art and recon
The cheapest combo may be USF major recon planes+TOT barrage, 240 muni(180+60) for 400 mp (fuel ofen overflow in late games)


jump backJump back to quoted post5 Dec 2018, 07:32 AMVipper

That is incorrect, check Soviet roster again. You will find reckon planes and IL-2 bombing in the same commander.

In addition its does not really matter in 4vs4 game.Player A can provide the reckon player B can provide the off map.


Soviet Combined arms.

My most used doctrine in multiplayer, Also has guards.

Wont let me add picture.

https://imgur.com/a/GHTQOe1

5 Dec 2018, 08:38 AM
#9
avatar of MakiesKurisu

Posts: 78

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Dec 2018, 07:32 AMVipper

That is incorrect, check Soviet roster again. You will find reckon planes and IL-2 bombing in the same commander.

In addition its does not really matter in 4vs4 game.Player A can provide the reckon player B can provide the off map.

Sorry for forgetting the only 1, combined arms. And that commander is not the best choice anyhow if the team gets a good USF player would get his major vetted. It lack some strong stuff that could help to build a strong frontline.
Now, commanders with 105s are usually picked in 4v4. Player A could build a 105, player B can build a 105. Anyhow, The team costs over 200 ammo for 400mp. That's same for axis to destroy ML20 though.
However, 105s fire more shells and more frequently since they can auto-counter after vet 1.
The main problem may be the auto-counter that obtains no micros and still provides considerable outcomes.
edit: Besides auto-counter, bunkers with no pop cap may be another problem. When U spam art, U will have less troops and the front line should be easier to be breaked. However, U have bunkers there making it possible to achieve both, strong frontline and art spam.
5 Dec 2018, 08:57 AM
#10
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 3535 | Subs: 1


...
Now, commanders with 105s are usually picked in 4v4. Player A could build a 105, player B can build a 105. ...

And player E can get a priest which counter both LeFH and OKW trucks.
5 Dec 2018, 11:12 AM
#11
avatar of Latch

Posts: 393

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Dec 2018, 08:57 AMVipper

And player E can get a priest which counter both LeFH and OKW trucks.


Forgetting that it has to move into danger to fire of course, forgetting also OKW has stealth AT guns than could be anywhere....

Again, this isn't a matter of X/Y+Z beats it therefore its fine! Its a matter of all arty pieces way overperforming and requiring too much (In some cases) to counter (for them to be rebuild)
6 Dec 2018, 01:23 AM
#13
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 602

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Dec 2018, 11:12 AMLatch


Forgetting that it has to move into danger to fire of course, forgetting also OKW has stealth AT guns than could be anywhere....

Again, this isn't a matter of X/Y+Z beats it therefore its fine! Its a matter of all arty pieces way overperforming and requiring too much (In some cases) to counter (for them to be rebuild)


180 range is sure super dangerous /s

If youre super parinoid of the 1/100 chance of this actually occuring, USF does have stock recon you know?
6 Dec 2018, 03:54 AM
#14
avatar of BeastHunter

Posts: 79


None of sov commander have both off-map art and recon
The cheapest combo may be USF major recon planes+TOT barrage, 240 muni(180+60) for 400 mp (fuel ofen overflow in late games)


The Soviet Mechanized Support Tactics is also a commander that offers recon and the offmap beside guards atgun camouflage and the ISU-152. It might be a bit harder to pull of but marking vehicles near the frontline where the artypiece is located will usually force it off when you can get a few shots in and the marking plane will usually reveal the LeFH and you can deliver your fab-50 bombs.
6 Dec 2018, 05:41 AM
#15
avatar of MakiesKurisu

Posts: 78

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Dec 2018, 08:57 AMVipper

And player E can get a priest which counter both LeFH and OKW trucks.

Yes, and USF also have fighting positions with no popcap, though much more fragile but still can function as the bunkers.
I mean if arts cost more popcap and cancel all these defensive structures without popcap may be better than simply nerf the guns itself. When players have to choose bettween more frontline units and arts, there may not be so much art spam.
6 Dec 2018, 05:52 AM
#17
avatar of MakiesKurisu

Posts: 78


the marking plane will usually reveal the LeFH and you can deliver your fab-50 bombs.

It's unreliable because U can not control the recon route, especially in large maps and the enemy build 105s in the very rear. If enemy got a AAHT, and their FHQ's AA on it will be worse.
6 Dec 2018, 06:00 AM
#18
avatar of AtomicRockets
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 507

Let's keep ad hominem out of this thread.

Keep it civil.
6 Dec 2018, 08:29 AM
#19
avatar of d0ggY
Caster Badge

Posts: 587 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Dec 2018, 20:52 PMLatch
Its batshit OP in team games to the point even taking it out can be next to impossible at times. Im rank 22 in team games as UKF (Obviously) and the only games I lose outright is when the enemy, more specifically OKW goes fortification doctrine.

The LEFH is the same for OST but OKW get a free defense with it when they place it next to the schwer. All arty needs reworking to either reduce ROF or reduce the AOE Id say the damage is OK but the accuracy even out of FOW is quite good.

Same goes for all arty BTW Preists, etc they go on about unit preservation and then create something that can wipe out multiple squads if it hits at the right place at the right time!


One simple word : No!

Yea Artillery can be big pain in the ass, can wipe you very unlucky. But for the LefH, it's stationary so a drop will do.

Sexton and Priest will always Dominate it.

There's a lot of other doctrines aswell that help you counter it easily.
6 Dec 2018, 09:07 AM
#20
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 1148

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Dec 2018, 08:29 AMd0ggY


One simple word : No!

Yea Artillery can be big pain in the ass, can wipe you very unlucky. But for the LefH, it's stationary so a drop will do.

Sexton and Priest will always Dominate it.

There's a lot of other doctrines aswell that help you counter it easily.


+1

Stationary howitzers are totally fine, but it's the mobile arty which can get really annoying on clusterfuck maps (e. g. Semosky, Trois Ponts, Port of Hamburg, Ettelbruck Station etc. etc.)

You will see Stuka, Panzerwerfer, Katyusha, Priests and (next patch) Sexton every single match there... and you cannot really avoid or destroy the mobile arty with how these maps are designed.
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