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russian armor

Reduce the cost of tier 4

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9 Oct 2018, 17:33 PM
#121
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1

Soviet tanks are fine, if anything buff conscripts and maxims some how, because being forced into penal/guard gets boring af, its honestly lame af how soviet meta rn is early engineer to compensate for capping power

How about buff conscripts into 200mp and merge their grenades and let them become ostruppen, or reduce their reinforcement by itself so they are less bleed.

Seriously fixing cons, maxims, shocks (which is being buffed already), will drastically improve soviet choices that would nerfing stuff like t70 cheese not a bad idea



I agree with this. Maxims shouldnt get an outright buff though, that would just bring back Maxim spam. Instead they could be toned down to 5 crew members, higher pop, longer build built time but better suppression and/or arc. Right now Maxims just feel like literal trash compared to almost any other MG. Exception is the DSHK which is crying in a corner because no one wants to use it because it got overnerfed so hard. I know it sounds arrogant but when the Dshk changes were dicussed I wrote multiple posts about them getting overnerfed. Seems like I was completly right. Again, the issue with Lend Lease were not Dshk but tech-free Shermans.
9 Oct 2018, 17:59 PM
#122
avatar of konfucius

Posts: 129



I agree with this. Maxims shouldnt get an outright buff though, that would just bring back Maxim spam. Instead they could be toned down to 5 crew members, higher pop, longer build built time but better suppression and/or arc. Right now Maxims just feel like literal trash compared to almost any other MG. Exception is the DSHK which is crying in a corner because no one wants to use it because it got overnerfed so hard. I know it sounds arrogant but when the Dshk changes were dicussed I wrote multiple posts about them getting overnerfed. Seems like I was completly right. Again, the issue with Lend Lease were not Dshk but tech-free Shermans.


I agree but 5 man won’t do no good, since conscripts can merge, instead the suppression of maxim should stay as is but give conscript a rear echelon like volley fire ability for nominal amounts of munition, that by itself shouldnt suppress but designed to apply in conjunction with a maxim to create an mg34 level suppression. Not sure if that makes sense or how easily to do this, but it would fit the combined arms synergy design of soviets, and reward good play.


That said i think soviets main problem with crutching cheese units is that conscripts arent good enough and fail to be either ostruppen or grenadiers but inherit worse of both, far too expensive for what they are without ppsh. Conscripts need serious changes, once they are in a good place it would be reasonable to nerf some cheesy soviet units

Soviet mgs should not be overbuffed or they will become too much with 6 man.
9 Oct 2018, 21:49 PM
#123
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

So because the sole unique thing cons have the Maxim must remain trash? They have no forward healing, merge costs the same or more per man (iirc) the only boon is that it's instant. Hardly any reason to keep it unable to perform the role its intended to do.
9 Oct 2018, 22:00 PM
#124
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8



I agree but 5 man won’t do no good, since conscripts can merge, instead the suppression of maxim should stay as is but give conscript a rear echelon like volley fire ability for nominal amounts of munition, that by itself shouldnt suppress but designed to apply in conjunction with a maxim to create an mg34 level suppression. Not sure if that makes sense or how easily to do this, but it would fit the combined arms synergy design of soviets, and reward good play.


That said i think soviets main problem with crutching cheese units is that conscripts arent good enough and fail to be either ostruppen or grenadiers but inherit worse of both, far too expensive for what they are without ppsh. Conscripts need serious changes, once they are in a good place it would be reasonable to nerf some cheesy soviet units

Soviet mgs should not be overbuffed or they will become too much with 6 man.


I think I can speak for all soviet players here.

If Merge is such a problem for the army and units, just replace it with non doctrinal weapon upgrade.

Also, Maxims are supposed to replace cons, relic said its "LMG infantry" of soviets, therefore the narrow arc and mobility, modders as well mentioned somewhere at least once that maxims are supposed to replace cons in late game as well due to cons being meme at scaling despite all the changes.
10 Oct 2018, 00:28 AM
#125
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned


I think I can speak for all soviet players here.

If Merge is such a problem for the army and units, just replace it with non doctrinal weapon upgrade.

Also, Maxims are supposed to replace cons, relic said its "LMG infantry" of soviets, therefore the narrow arc and mobility, modders as well mentioned somewhere at least once that maxims are supposed to replace cons in late game as well due to cons being meme at scaling despite all the changes.


Relic said Ostheer was supposed to be the defensive faction but the Brits get far better defensive structures and have better offensive power too. Nobody cares what Relic said. If cons scaling is still a meme, what is gren scaling? Cons get the same RA as grens at vet 3 while getting 2 extra men. They are quite tough for the price. Grens need to compete against double upgraded WFA inf and fail miserably.
10 Oct 2018, 01:30 AM
#126
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

Toughness doesn't mean shit when they can't do anything in the time they are around. Every other faction is slinging automatics centralizing DPS and offsetting everyone else's RA bonuses, except cons who are still relying on rifles. That's the problem. Cons are basically a KV8 with the 45 fighting enemy armour. They can feed vet wonderfully but that's the extent of it.
10 Oct 2018, 02:51 AM
#127
avatar of Cresc

Posts: 378

The soviet teching needs a revamp imo, I said they should decrease the T4 cost, I think the whole soviet techs is flawed and needs to be rethought.


I'm all for buffing the maxims damage output, I think this is the best way to balance it, and therefor maybe decreasing its suppression value more.

Right now maxim is bad for both uses, while MG42 has tremendously big suppression and dps.

And it can be used the same way a maxim does, to support your infantry, I recall relic saying tha maxim is a support unit while the MG42 is for defensive purposes.

How come MG42 is quite literally a maxim on steroids?

10 Oct 2018, 06:34 AM
#128
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Oct 2018, 02:51 AMCresc
...
How come MG42 is quite literally a maxim on steroids?

Yeah, make them the same, its not going to make the game boring at all, isnt it?
The only difference will be clothing and flag colours.
Mirroring units is boring and a bad idea.
10 Oct 2018, 06:37 AM
#129
avatar of Loxley

Posts: 223

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Oct 2018, 02:51 AMCresc


How come MG42 is quite literally a maxim on steroids?



Because one is from World War 1, the other one from World War 2.

10 Oct 2018, 06:45 AM
#130
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243

i think the maxim is in some ways more potent than mg42.

it can defense on itself, cause of high speed setup time, 6 models and fast supress

it can with no problem reposition and hey...models dropped? when u planed right there is a con squad nearly and u can merge...

10 Oct 2018, 07:14 AM
#131
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

i think the maxim is in some ways more potent than mg42.

it can defense on itself, cause of high speed setup time, 6 models and fast supress

it can with no problem reposition and hey...models dropped? when u planed right there is a con squad nearly and u can merge...


Update your game. The Maxim is certainly not quick in any way especially not quick to suppress.
10 Oct 2018, 07:18 AM
#132
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243


Update your game. The Maxim is certainly not quick in any way especially not quick to suppress.



it is faster than the mg42. it is so fast that a non-setup maxim can setup from alone and supress a squad without fear to be flanked (except if the enemy has sprint)

this doesnt work with mg42.
10 Oct 2018, 07:26 AM
#133
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8




it is faster than the mg42. it is so fast that a non-setup maxim can setup from alone and supress a squad without fear to be flanked (except if the enemy has sprint)

this doesnt work with mg42.

Because MG42 doesn't need to desetup in the first place due to massive arc.
10 Oct 2018, 07:27 AM
#134
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Oct 2018, 07:26 AMKatitof

Because MG42 doesn't need to desetup in the first place due to massive arc.

a setup mg42 must be retreat when flanked....a maxim wont
10 Oct 2018, 07:45 AM
#135
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8


a setup mg42 must be retreat when flanked....a maxim wont

When you're at 30 range away from it, you havent flanked it.

When PROPERLY flanked, it needs to retreat just as any other hmg.
10 Oct 2018, 08:00 AM
#136
avatar of Grim

Posts: 1093

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Oct 2018, 07:26 AMKatitof

Because MG42 doesn't need to desetup in the first place due to massive arc.


I think the MG42 needs toning down slightly, even if that means buffing Grens in exchange. At the moment it is simply so much better than every other MG it's beyond bizarre.

And Ullumulu if you don't retreat your Maxim after its been properly flanked then you've just lost a MG XD
10 Oct 2018, 08:21 AM
#137
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6



I agree but 5 man won’t do no good, since conscripts can merge


Would giving them a higher RA do any good? It'd achieve the same purpose as downscaling to 5 men in regards to survivability to direct fire, while keeping high survivability (due to 6 models) to indirect fire. Merge would be less effective too.


Or an Osttruppen-like MG upgrade (1x DP-28) for Cons once T3 or T4 has been built.
10 Oct 2018, 08:25 AM
#138
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279




it is faster than the mg42. it is so fast that a non-setup maxim can setup from alone and supress a squad without fear to be flanked (except if the enemy has sprint)

this doesnt work with mg42.

Except it doesn't suppress so idk what you are on about. I've walked through Maxim arcs across the width of them under fire and not been suppressed. A volks can walk up to a Maxim under fire and get close enough to flame nade it frontally every time because it doesn't suppress. It could spin on a dime and it wouldn't matter because it's important stats are ineffective. It's supposed to suppress and it does a piss poor job at it.
10 Oct 2018, 08:25 AM
#139
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



Would giving them a higher RA do any good? It'd achieve the same purpose as downscaling to 5 men in regards to survivability to direct fire, while keeping high survivability (due to 6 models) to indirect fire. Merge would be less effective too.


Or an Osttruppen-like MG upgrade (1x DP-28) for Cons once T3 or T4 has been built.

The higher the target size of crews the more effective merge becomes since "merged" entities would be significantly tougher.

Imo one could start by lowering the number of entities of re-crewed weapon to 4 since captured weapon become very strong.
10 Oct 2018, 08:38 AM
#140
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Oct 2018, 08:25 AMVipper

The higher the target size of crews the more effective merge becomes since "merged" entities would be significantly tougher.

Imo one could start by lowering the number of entities of re-crewed weapon to 4 since captured weapon become very strong.

+decrewing and recrewing completely nullifies any out of the gate rec acc.
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