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M8A1 Scott Counter

17 Sep 2018, 12:44 PM
#1
avatar of AtomicRockets
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Posts: 605

Hi everyone,

I would like to ask for advice on how to counter M8A1 Scotts, especially if you opponent gets a pair of them. They are extremely effective against infantry, and are usually screened by Riflemen and backed up by Jacksons. I have attempted Medium Armor rushes but usually, it doesn't work :/

I mainly play 1v1, so I'd like to know what I should do to counter them in this game mode.

Advice on how OKW can counter M8A1 Scotts would be welcome as well.

Cheers.
17 Sep 2018, 12:46 PM
#2
avatar of mondeogaming1

Posts: 421

stealth raketens jag panzer/panther
17 Sep 2018, 18:22 PM
#3
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2268

There isn't really an easy way to counter them. 3 shots to kill, smoke canister, and 60 range + mobile. Although potentially risky to get wiped, stealth raks are your best bet probably.
17 Sep 2018, 23:40 PM
#4
avatar of AtomicRockets
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 605

Yeah, previously I've tried medium armor rushes, but at Vet 1 (quite easy to achieve) they just pop smoke and I am forced to back off, lest I eat Jackson shots :/

If OKW's counter are Raks, what are WM's?
18 Sep 2018, 00:03 AM
#5
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2873

Forward tellers could work for ostheer.
18 Sep 2018, 00:18 AM
#6
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
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Posts: 2268

Stuka CAS? XD Well at the very least for ostheer, inorder to shoot Ostheers pak guns, they need to be inrange of the pak guns, given no elevation issues.
18 Sep 2018, 05:26 AM
#7
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 2160

Stuka CAS? XD Well at the very least for ostheer, inorder to shoot Ostheers pak guns, they need to be inrange of the pak guns, given no elevation issues.

Wait really? I thought Scott’s outranked paks a little.

Yeah they’re tough to counter. It does mean your opponent has a little less real armor on the field and has to dedicate some troops to protecting the Scotts though, so maybe trying to take advantage of his relative lack of mobility would help (attacking different sides, hard pushes, etc).
18 Sep 2018, 05:39 AM
#8
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2268


Wait really? I thought Scott’s outranked paks a little.

Yeah they’re tough to counter. It does mean your opponent has a little less real armor on the field and has to dedicate some troops to protecting the Scotts though, so maybe trying to take advantage of his relative lack of mobility would help (attacking different sides, hard pushes, etc).


Auto attack: 60

Barrage: 80

Smoke: 100

So the accurate/adaptive one will be inrange of the paks, the others will not be. A good tool against them though is to try and smoke push, but when is smoke and flank™ ever bad?
18 Sep 2018, 08:59 AM
#9
avatar of Joshua85
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 567

I've seen Helping Hans using them quite a bit, but other than that they seem to be a rare sight in higher level games, and at least from a viewing perspective, they don't seem to be all that fearsome. On top of that I imagine that they kind of force you to go captain or air drop AT, so you don't get bumrushed by opponents armor.

But after your post I guess I'll have to try them out :D
18 Sep 2018, 17:12 PM
#10
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 2160

I've seen Helping Hans using them quite a bit, but other than that they seem to be a rare sight in higher level games, and at least from a viewing perspective, they don't seem to be all that fearsome. On top of that I imagine that they kind of force you to go captain or air drop AT, so you don't get bumrushed by opponents armor.

But after your post I guess I'll have to try them out :D

Like everything else that has autofire, their effectiveness gets compounded when you have multiple. 3 Scotts can be very scary if they can protect them well.

Their projectile is also very fast.
18 Sep 2018, 17:49 PM
#11
avatar of Joshua85
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 567


Like everything else that has autofire, their effectiveness gets compounded when you have multiple. 3 Scotts can be very scary if they can protect them well.

Their projectile is also very fast.


But that would also be an insane amount of pop cap to invest in an armored indrect fire unit. I can't imagine that would be worth the risk in 1v1 o_O
19 Sep 2018, 00:09 AM
#12
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 2160



But that would also be an insane amount of pop cap to invest in an armored indrect fire unit. I can't imagine that would be worth the risk in 1v1 o_O

Yeah probably not. Two at maximum in 1v1s is more likely and still very effective though, and I believe they are only 10 pop a piece, so almost like having one comet or panther or brummbar. That leaves you free to have a decent amount of infantry and possibly even a jackson. I personally don’t use them very much though. Better to let the BARs work on infantry and invest in as many Jacksons as possible in most cases IMO.
19 Sep 2018, 00:52 AM
#13
avatar of AtomicRockets
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Posts: 605

Generally, I've seen that Scotts are part of LT-Major rush. You can have 1 RE, 3 Rifles, 1 LT, 1 Major, 2-3 team weapons, 2 Scotts, and 2 Jacksons. In team games, you can just rely on your teammate to get AT coverage and get more anti-infantry units.

Also, USF has the overpopulation "feature" they can use.

I don't think Popcap is the issue that stops players from Scotts. Usually, it's having too little AT in mid game.

Either way, if the only "reliable" counter for WM is Stuka CAS and Rak ambushes for OKW... I would say that this unit is overpowered. But before I make that verdict, I'd like to see if my ideas are wrong.
19 Sep 2018, 01:52 AM
#14
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1115 | Subs: 1

Discounting Ambulance and Weapon Racks and AAHT (75F) 2 Scotts and 2 Jacksons with LT into Major is 600 Fuel, so either they get the Scotts early and lack TDs or they get them late, which means you'd have more chances to kill them before their Vet1.
But Considering the huge army advantage you describe, it sounds like you didn't bully USF slow start enough and were losing pretty badly army size wise, don't let the Yankees get their hands on fuel and ammo or their lategame power will surprise you.
19 Sep 2018, 02:14 AM
#15
avatar of AtomicRockets
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 605

Discounting Ambulance and Weapon Racks and AAHT (75F) 2 Scotts and 2 Jacksons with LT into Major is 600 Fuel, so either they get the Scotts early and lack TDs or they get them late, which means you'd have more chances to kill them before their Vet1.
But Considering the huge army advantage you describe, it sounds like you didn't bully USF slow start enough and were losing pretty badly army size wise, don't let the Yankees get their hands on fuel and ammo or their lategame power will surprise you.


Very true. Such a scenario is very much a late-game scenario, which usually happens if players are at a similar skill level.

It's not that there is a massive disparity in army size. I usually end up with near-100 popcap as well; it's just that I find it extremely difficult to push when your infantry gets shot to bits in the midst of infantry engagements. Wiping power of Scotts is shockingly good.

Have you encountered any reliable counter to M8A1 Scotts?
19 Sep 2018, 03:04 AM
#16
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1115 | Subs: 1



Very true. Such a scenario is very much a late-game scenario, which usually happens if players are at a similar skill level.

It's not that there is a massive disparity in army size. I usually end up with near-100 popcap as well; it's just that I find it extremely difficult to push when your infantry gets shot to bits in the midst of infantry engagements. Wiping power of Scotts is shockingly good.

Have you encountered any reliable counter to M8A1 Scotts?


From the USF perspective:
Multiple Panthers can work too in maps where they can close in to use their HP advantage, a Super Heavy TD on a open map. Mediums (Specially Panzer IVs) don't work well vs USF ATGs, Bazookas and Jacksons will kill them too quickly, then you will miss them when you need to hold back Riflemen. Just add in CAS or a pair of cloaked Raketens and you will get them.
19 Sep 2018, 07:15 AM
#17
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 1590 | Subs: 1

Jagdtiger and Ele once worked, but allied players cried so long that this is over of course
19 Sep 2018, 08:40 AM
#18
avatar of Joshua85
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 567


I don't think Popcap is the issue that stops players from Scotts. Usually, it's having too little AT in mid game.


True. This is also what I imagine would be a huge problem with this strategy in 1v1, which means that unless you have had a significant fuel lead throughout the game (which of course always opens up for many more options), then you would have to go either Captain or a commander with AT airdrop.

2v2 of course is a completely different story, but I pretty much only play 1v1 these days :D
19 Sep 2018, 10:24 AM
#19
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 2324



Have you encountered any reliable counter to M8A1 Scotts?



Flank with your tanks, Pz4 aren't the best for that but one Pz4 and one Panther can do it. Often you'll pass through his defense because having two Scott means having a difficite in anti tank area.
19 Sep 2018, 12:53 PM
#20
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 1851

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Sep 2018, 10:24 AMEsxile



Flank with your tanks, Pz4 aren't the best for that but one Pz4 and one Panther can do it. Often you'll pass through his defense because having two Scott means having a difficite in anti tank area.


I don't think flanking will work. Panzer IV's are too squishy vs double jacksons, especially in team games. Riflemen screening with snares to nail your tanks and supporting infantry gets annihilated by the double scotts. Panthers have too low rate of fire to do any meaning damage and will get nailed by the kiting jacksons.

The combo is very very potent, but only seen in really late game stages. I believe there was once a same kind of strat, but the double scotts were replaced by paratroopers with double lmgs and you had multiple jacksons behind the blob and supported by p47 galore. Same sort of melt all strat.
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