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russian armor

Idea to fix volks

25 Aug 2018, 22:32 PM
#1
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 996

After the volks got their higher vets nerfed, they were given more RA than before at vet3 to partially compensate. Volk stgs have always felt like their dps profile is too good at all ranges. I think the profile should be a bit closer to the lmg42 so that 2 stgs is slightly worse than a 42. And slightly worse because a 42-like dps on the move would be op. In other words slightly more long range and noticeable less short range dps. I think this will give the volks a slightly more glassy feel and force OKW to improve their micro with volks to maintain optimal range vs enemies. To help them with that I suggest removing some of the vet 3 RA and replace it with a very small increase in unit speed allowing the volks to reduce the amount of incoming small arms fire while they backpedal. This will allow volks to be used more fluidly and punish poor volk micro as if riflemen or cons get close without taking too much damage, volks won't even stand a chance. In the late game volks aren't supposed to fight toe to toe against WFA infantry so giving it a small mobility advantage may allow better OKW players to make better usage of them and punish the noobs for mismanagement. For example slightly better speed may mean better flanking, or chasing retreating squads, or scouting. This change will mean that the volks will be less capable in a meatgrinder but more useful in other ways.
26 Aug 2018, 05:00 AM
#2
avatar of MakiesKurisu

Posts: 130

But increase long range damage will also make them easier to eliminate the retreating squads,(They are already good at this now)
And inf with better long range damage would usually perform better when blobbing as u could focus fire on high value targets before they could get close.(Volks are also very good at this now).
Anyway, Volks and stg44 have higher cost price efficiency right now.
26 Aug 2018, 05:14 AM
#3
avatar of LeOverlord

Posts: 302

There is a unit OKW has, with firepower advantage in ALL ranges. Do you know its name?

Fallschirmjager

26 Aug 2018, 05:31 AM
#4
avatar of MakiesKurisu

Posts: 130

There is a unit OKW has, with firepower advantage in ALL ranges. Do you know its name?

Fallschirmjager



They do well in doing damage,however, they have poor RA and fragile under enemy fire
26 Aug 2018, 09:55 AM
#5
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13503 | Subs: 6



They do well in doing damage,however, they have poor RA and fragile under enemy fire

Ambush flanker infantry is not as tough as mainline infantry.
Who would have thought.

Get them in cover and use them together with volks as meatshields and scouts.
26 Aug 2018, 10:41 AM
#6
avatar of LeOverlord

Posts: 302

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Aug 2018, 09:55 AMKatitof

Ambush flanker infantry is not as tough as mainline infantry.
Who would have thought.

Get them in cover and use them together with volks as meatshields and scouts.


And then the USF player picks Heavy Cavalry, brings in Rangers, and they just shred those German boys in pieces with fire support from Riflemen.
26 Aug 2018, 11:57 AM
#7
avatar of GreyKnight93

Posts: 84

Volks are just basic units, you suppose to bring in other units like Sturm, Obersoldateen, Falshiem, Jaeger Light Infantry, Pzfussilier to support the assault.
26 Aug 2018, 12:54 PM
#8
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3012 | Subs: 1

Volks are just basic units, you suppose to bring in other units like Sturm, Obersoldateen, Falshiem, Jaeger Light Infantry, Pzfussilier to support the assault.

Tell that to the current design. If you can't break the line with Volks you didn't bring enough volks
27 Aug 2018, 07:33 AM
#10
avatar of GreyKnight93

Posts: 84


Tell that to the current design. If you can't break the line with Volks you didn't bring enough volks


If they bring more volks in t charge into a line .... then thats just waste of Manpower, OKW has units like Luch or Stuka Halftrack to break those lines, with Sturmpioneer as support and MG34 or LeiG sitting at the back to support.
27 Aug 2018, 13:42 PM
#11
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3012 | Subs: 1



If they bring more volks in t charge into a line .... then thats just waste of Manpower, OKW has units like Luch or Stuka Halftrack to break those lines, with Sturmpioneer as support and MG34 or LeiG sitting at the back to support.

That's the theory. In practice volks are about all you need. More volks isn't a waste because they are versatile as fuck. Not on the front? They can build sand bags, enemy garrison? No problem. Armour around? More snares! Enemy getting vetted? Super no choice weapon upgrade!
Volks are like riflemen lite that don't have to suffer choosing between AT or MG support.
27 Aug 2018, 13:55 PM
#12
avatar of karskimies

Posts: 67

Bring back the shreckvolks!
27 Aug 2018, 16:58 PM
#13
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 911


Volks are like riflemen lite that don't have to suffer choosing between AT or MG support.


Sure volks are like riflemen, apart from the fact they do less damage, and have worse vet.
27 Aug 2018, 18:04 PM
#14
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1430 | Subs: 1

I missed that part where OP explains why Volks need fixed... I mean unless I missed something Volks spam is pretty much a fixture of the current meta sooooo...? Yes I know that Volks can potentially struggle in the late game but OKW also has this thing called Obers who are the pinnacle of LMG destruction so why exactly should Volks be moved towards a LMG weapons profile again?
27 Aug 2018, 20:33 PM
#15
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 1428



Why are you acting as if having the option to get a bazooka on a rifleman is a downside.


That's not what he's saying. He's saying have to choose between MGs and AT-guns, unlike OKW who get both of those no matter what.


Plus sure volks are like riflemen, apart from the fact they do less damage, and have worse vet.


They are also cheaper to buy, reinforce, and upgrade, while being easier to Vet. Volks get RA bonus at vet 1, their vet is hardly much worse than riflemen if not just as good.

Volks are far more cost effecient than riflemen, and clearly need to be nerfed.
28 Aug 2018, 03:28 AM
#16
avatar of TheGentlemenTroll

Posts: 948 | Subs: 1



They do well in doing damage,however, they have poor RA and fragile under enemy fire


Use falls like you would use Pathfinders. Sit them in the back in cover behind a volk/rifle screen.
28 Aug 2018, 06:04 AM
#17
avatar of GreyKnight93

Posts: 84


That's the theory. In practice volks are about all you need. More volks isn't a waste because they are versatile as fuck. Not on the front? They can build sand bags, enemy garrison? No problem. Armour around? More snares! Enemy getting vetted? Super no choice weapon upgrade!
Volks are like riflemen lite that don't have to suffer choosing between AT or MG support.


I would safely say then that you didn't respond well against the volks blob, again, this is a strategy game, you play according to what they do, or what you make them to do.

I main USF most so i could say if i see volks blob like 3 ~ 4 squad coming in, i would.

1. Bring Lieutenant if i have fuel, cause at 4th volks timing my fuel should be enough if i don't bring medic, and then get MG to suppress them
2. Fighting position would also be lovely if play correctly, RE with free nade bro
3. Spam Rifleman, or get 3 rifleman, and get close and personal against volks. Yes they do great against volks on close range because rifleman are strong on medium range, unless volks gets STG44 then just play medium.
4. Grenade, get grenade

4th Volks usually clock in around 5 ~ 7 min time, which you have plenty of manpower spare to throw around. Use it well

Now i don't know about Soviet or UKF but they have their ways of counter volks.
28 Aug 2018, 06:17 AM
#18
avatar of zerocoh

Posts: 787



Sure volks are like riflemen, apart from the fact they do less damage, and have worse vet.


Sure, but rifles need to fight on their own pretty much the whole game, while volks have all kinds of support. (fastest AT, fastest rocket arty, stock heavy tank, decent mg, free nades/snare)

you are comparing units in a wrong way, if you get rifles with no bars then volks win by a LOT. you NEED to pay 120 munis to each rifles just to get the edge, and that is not even guaranteed, RNG might favor volks and they still have flame/infiltration nades.

also, volks vet MUCH faster than rifles. The only scenario where you are screwed is if you lose your vetted volks all at once, then you never manage to fight back toe to toe.
28 Aug 2018, 06:46 AM
#19
avatar of GreyKnight93

Posts: 84

28 Aug 2018, 07:47 AM
#20
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 1847 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Aug 2018, 06:17 AMzerocoh

Sure, but rifles need to fight on their own pretty much the whole game, while volks have all kinds of support. (fastest AT, fastest rocket arty, stock heavy tank, decent mg, free nades/snare)


Convienently leaving out how Volks have no defensive structures, have to pay the most of all factions to get healing, need to buy their STG upgrade package always to stand a chance against anything other than stock cons, don't have any decent AI (anti-blob rather) vehicles and that this 'stock heavy tank' costs 1620MP and 515F to deploy (let alone that its performance is garbage).

Rifles meanwhile get free squads to back them up, have the fastest mortar, have mobile reinforcement & (fast) healing, free rifle grenades in fighting positions, the best AI heavy tank in the game, elite infantry with highest DPS in the game, best TD in the game, and the list goes on.

If you're gonna make these comparisons, at least be fair about it. Both sides have pros and cons.
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