@matrix300
Ppshs increase close dps but reduce far dps creating a role change. STGs increase all dps making them more effective at range and even more effective upclose-there is not ever a single reason in the entire game under no scenario that upgrading to STGs is a bad move at all ever. You can still use them to sit behind green cover and shoot at cqb units or rush them in to eat long range units. That is my point. So yea, there would be no reason to restrict the mp40 upgrade imo as it HAS DRAWBACKS.
Building a lot of cons without the ppsh ability is a losing strat because while you are spamming rifle infantry the enemy is matching you AND has an upgrade that increases their DPS, in the case of okw WITH NOT A SINGLE DRAWBACK. You can't just build cons like you can volks and transition into the late game. You will NEED guards or penal to stand half a chance.
Ptac is already a 1 click wonder, if the enemy has snare infantry in range YOU failed to provide proper support and yes you desire to get snared. The pfaust on anything but volks should also apply to that.
Also-fausts can be used against buildings and shit, so maybe THAT'S the "counter weight" *if others do it should all of then*
Impact of smoke on AT grenades
12 Aug 2018, 01:07 AM
#41
Posts: 5279
#stalinwept
12 Aug 2018, 03:17 AM
#42
Posts: 54
im a mostly ost player, i think its fine as it is
if you have trouble with your smoke, you dive to much ^^
if you have trouble with your smoke, you dive to much ^^
12 Aug 2018, 10:10 AM
#43
Posts: 3260
So I did some testing myself and it turns out this issue is a symptom of something different.
The Panzerfaust and USF AT Rifle Grenade require the squad itself to have line-of-sight and the other snares don't.
USF AT Rifle Grenades and OST/OKW Panzerfausts require the squad itself to have line of sight to the target vehicle for the firing animation to start. If the squad itself doesn't have line of sight when the animation starts the ability will cancel. Once the animation starts you're safe: if you lose LoS during the Panzerfaust animation the ability will still fire.
Other AT grenades do not require the squad itself to have LoS: provided the player can see the vehicle the squad will throw the snare.
This doesn't just apply to smoke. They'll throw their snares through hedges and buildings too if they can get the target in range.
The Panzerfaust and USF AT Rifle Grenade require the squad itself to have line-of-sight and the other snares don't.
USF AT Rifle Grenades and OST/OKW Panzerfausts require the squad itself to have line of sight to the target vehicle for the firing animation to start. If the squad itself doesn't have line of sight when the animation starts the ability will cancel. Once the animation starts you're safe: if you lose LoS during the Panzerfaust animation the ability will still fire.
Other AT grenades do not require the squad itself to have LoS: provided the player can see the vehicle the squad will throw the snare.
This doesn't just apply to smoke. They'll throw their snares through hedges and buildings too if they can get the target in range.
12 Aug 2018, 15:45 PM
#44
Posts: 518
@matrix300
Ppshs increase close dps but reduce far dps creating a role change.
Conscripts aren't meant to fight long range battles so it isn't a role change
there is not ever a single reason in the entire game under no scenario that upgrading to STGs is a bad move at all ever.
Doesn't the same apply to US LMGs and PPsh 41 too?
Building a lot of cons without the ppsh ability is a losing strat because while you are spamming rifle infantry the enemy is matching you AND has an upgrade that increases their DPS
Those upgrades cost ammo which you can spend on other stuff.
You can't just build cons like you can volks and transition into the late game. You will NEED guards or penal to stand half a chance.
Only building Volks will get you also into trouble since they aren't that great when unupgraded and even with Upgrade they are not some kinda of "Ultra-Terminator" squad. And using Cons in late game acutally works. They are a decent infantry unit for their price.
Ptac is already a 1 click wonder, if the enemy has snare infantry in range YOU failed to provide proper support and yes you desire to get snared. The pfaust on anything but volks should also apply to that.
So if Russians snare thought buildings and smoke it is ok and deserved but not so if the same happens with Volks ?
Also-fausts can be used against buildings and shit, so maybe THAT'S the "counter weight" *if others do it should all of then*
Oh yea ... slightly damaging buildings is a really good counterewight to beeing able to throw AT nades even throught you have no LoS. If only Russians had this ability too ... something which could get used as AT nade and Building destroyer ... something like satchel.
So I did some testing myself and it turns out this issue is a symptom of something different.
The Panzerfaust and USF AT Rifle Grenade require the squad itself to have line-of-sight and the other snares don't.
USF AT Rifle Grenades and OST/OKW Panzerfausts require the squad itself to have line of sight to the target vehicle for the firing animation to start. If the squad itself doesn't have line of sight when the animation starts the ability will cancel. Once the animation starts you're safe: if you lose LoS during the Panzerfaust animation the ability will still fire.
Other AT grenades do not require the squad itself to have LoS: provided the player can see the vehicle the squad will throw the snare.
This doesn't just apply to smoke. They'll throw their snares through hedges and buildings too if they can get the target in range.
Thanks for the testings. In my opinion this makes the whole situation even more broke. Just imagine getting snared out of nowhere.
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
Playing with randoms
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
I don't play this version of EZ mode very often because it's so boringly simple. But it is funny to see the Axis circle jerk with people complaining that the one faction with every crutch in the book is some how underpowered lol.
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
u deserve to lose if u don't have an Ele when there's an ISU.
Just stay out of topics u have no knowledge of, Latch.
Ranked, I only play USF. Wouldn't be caught dead playing Nazis with some sort of record being taken
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you, and wouldn't be surprised to be hit again, but I'm fed up with this bullshit and honestly, the sole fact that I'm not permad is what keeps me here having discussions about the game I like and yes, I do question myself why I still go back here to this free range insane asylum so often.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
12 Aug 2018, 16:44 PM
#45
Posts: 3260
Thanks for the testings. In my opinion this makes the whole situation even more broke. Just imagine getting snared out of nowhere.
You still need one squad with LoS on the vehicle to do it.
Tbh I'm not sure is this possible to fix, it may be an animation bug with the panzerfaust and USF AT grenade.
If it is possible to fix I'd lean towards removing the LoS check from all snares rather than adding it to SOV and UKF. The cancelling snares still allow you to target them when they can't actually be thrown so they feel unresponsive.
Doesn't the same apply to US LMGs and PPsh 41 too?
No.
The USF BAR, OST G43 and OKW STG are the only weapon upgrades I can think of which are absolute improvements: the other weapon upgrades make the squad worse in some respect. LMG upgrades make squads trash close up and don't fire on the move, SMG upgrades make squads trash at range.
12 Aug 2018, 17:13 PM
#46
Posts: 518
The USF BAR, OST G43 and OKW STG are the only weapon upgrades I can think of which are absolute improvements: the other weapon upgrades make the squad worse in some respect. LMG upgrades make squads trash close up and don't fire on the move, SMG upgrades make squads trash at range.
With "Lmgs" I also meant the BARs (always forget that they more act like Stg 44s and thus aren't "real" Lmgs in this game).And is it really that hard when Cons long range DPS gets decreased? I mean they already aren't that great on long range so you basically always have to get close to the enemy.
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
Playing with randoms
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
I don't play this version of EZ mode very often because it's so boringly simple. But it is funny to see the Axis circle jerk with people complaining that the one faction with every crutch in the book is some how underpowered lol.
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
u deserve to lose if u don't have an Ele when there's an ISU.
Just stay out of topics u have no knowledge of, Latch.
Ranked, I only play USF. Wouldn't be caught dead playing Nazis with some sort of record being taken
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you, and wouldn't be surprised to be hit again, but I'm fed up with this bullshit and honestly, the sole fact that I'm not permad is what keeps me here having discussions about the game I like and yes, I do question myself why I still go back here to this free range insane asylum so often.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
12 Aug 2018, 18:09 PM
#47
Posts: 3260
nd is it really that hard when Cons long range DPS gets decreased?
Normal conscripts can fight at range just fine, like Riflemen.
The PPSh's damage drops off almost entirely beyond 10m range. If a PPSh Conscript squad fights outside of effectively melee range it's doing about half the damage of a normal Conscript squad.
It's like having half a Conscript squad fused with half a Shock Troops squad, minus the body armor.
12 Aug 2018, 20:00 PM
#48
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Ahh so I just checked the log and they removed the minimum range for rifle and fusilier AT nades in the last patch. My mistake. That said, there is still an animation bug that allows it to cancel just like the faust, but I don't know where you get smoke issue from because a variety of things can cause it.
My main objection is how you feel this is an major problem for axis when they have the most tank smoke AND their tanks all have speed boosts. I feel like you have yet to address that...
Thats not the point though. It still nerfs their long range dps whereas, Stgs is a buff to Volks at all ranges. Hence why that upgrade is among the dumbest things in the game, it's a total no brainier
My main objection is how you feel this is an major problem for axis when they have the most tank smoke AND their tanks all have speed boosts. I feel like you have yet to address that...
Conscripts aren't meant to fight long range battles so it isn't a role change
Thats not the point though. It still nerfs their long range dps whereas, Stgs is a buff to Volks at all ranges. Hence why that upgrade is among the dumbest things in the game, it's a total no brainier
12 Aug 2018, 20:18 PM
#49
Posts: 22
Let them fire through smoke and just decrease the accuracy to like 40%. Actually, maybe they can make panzerfausts fire like Tulip missiles, but after their natural range the missile just drops to the ground. Honestly I'd be fine with all tank grenades needing to be thrown and not just point and click abilities. If it lands on the tank it will stick. I think its just ridiculous to watch a car drive by an infantry group at top speed and the bomb the infantry squad throws follows it around like something out of Looney Toons. Incorporate some skill into it.
Then massively nerf armored cars.
Then massively nerf armored cars.
12 Aug 2018, 21:26 PM
#50
Posts: 911
Thats not the point though. It still nerfs their long range dps whereas, Stgs is a buff to Volks at all ranges. Hence why that upgrade is among the dumbest things in the game, it's a total no brainier
No one cares that it nerfs their long range DPS, when you have strong received accuracy bonuses, 6 men (3 of which can be lost with no effect to overall close DPS) and a sprint ability. Making it a "no brainer" upgrade.
Imagine my playercard is here
12 Aug 2018, 22:06 PM
#51
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
The USF BAR, OST G43 and OKW STG are the only weapon upgrades I can think of which are absolute improvements: the other weapon upgrades make the squad worse in some respect. LMG upgrades make squads trash close up and don't fire on the move, SMG upgrades make squads trash at range.
Slight corrections + additions.
ARs/SMGs also have focus fire false which tend to deal some damage on miss rolls. You were missing also the IR STG which beats the best long range bolt action rifle (Obers) at practically every range plus having better stats against garrison/cover.
Might as well mention here the Thompson for either Ranger/Paras. You already don't want them fighting at 30 range, so the dmg drop off after upgrading is meaningless.
The concept of LMG been trash at close range is practically false. Unless the enemy unit is able to dance around you forcing the LMG model to spin around, the damage difference is negligible and almost only applying to a small range. While you lose "chasing capabilities", the moment you have an upgrade weapon, you are better doing an attack move order and staying still.
The only squads this DPS disparity might be appreciable are with Paratroopers and Commandos, with Commandos been the only one with a drawback IMO.
Even SMG which have a bigger drop off effect, they are absolutely "no brainers" as the alternative is not much better as oppose to the benefits added. Even the Volks Mp40 upgrade which makes you lose far range dps and lava nades, gives you way better close range dps, smoke/frag nades and better RA.
The only choices which have a really repercussion are either thinking Commandos with Brens is a better investment than putting them on any other squad and upgrading units with AT packages.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
12 Aug 2018, 22:49 PM
#52
Posts: 3260
The concept of LMG been trash at close range is practically false.
I was referring to the LMG itself because of the inverted damage profile, not the LMG squad. A Gren Squad's still got three models with the default guns.
12 Aug 2018, 23:25 PM
#53
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Making it a "no brainer" upgrade.
Did Ppshs become stock? They are absolutely not a "no brainier" upgrade. Conscripts aren't even a no brainier unit. Penals are better on many maps
Stg volks are the absolute definition of no brainier. You get them any game regardless of the situation
12 Aug 2018, 23:30 PM
#54
Posts: 911
Did Ppshs become stock? They are absolutely not a "no brainier" upgrade.
The fact that it comes in a doctrine has no bearing on its "braininess." No one, who has selected a doc with pssha cons thinks to themselves "You know what, I want my Conscripts to stick at long ranges so that they can continue to have mediocre damage, I wont upgrade them."
Imagine my playercard is here
12 Aug 2018, 23:41 PM
#55
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
The fact that it comes in a doctrine has no bearing on its "braininess." No one, who has selected a doc with pssha cons thinks to themselves "You know what, I want my Conscripts to stick at long ranges so that they can continue to have mediocre damage, I wont upgrade them."
You literally bypassed a decision in your explanation of why it's not a decision. Ppshs won't factor at all into your commander choice?
You can debate my wording more if you want, there's no debate that stg Volks are blatantly more common than ppsh cons
12 Aug 2018, 23:43 PM
#56
Posts: 911
You literally bypassed a decision in your explanation of why it's not a decision.
Because it's a completely different decision. If we want to factor All decisions into it, why not include which faction one is playing. "You literally bypassed a decision!" Hey why not include playing Coh2 vs coh1? Another you have bypassed.
Imagine my playercard is here
12 Aug 2018, 23:50 PM
#57
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Because it's a completely different decision. If we want to factor All decisions into it, why not include which faction one is playing. "You literally bypassed a decision!" Hey why not include playing Coh2 vs coh1? Another you have bypassed.
Really dude? I'm talking ones you make during a match. Choosing to have ppshs on your cons happens during a match. If you don't see the difference here I don't know what to tell you
12 Aug 2018, 23:58 PM
#58
Posts: 911
Really dude? I'm talking ones you make during a match. Choosing to have ppshs on your cons happens during a match. If you don't see the difference here I don't know what to tell you
Because if you have access to them, you upgrade to them without thinking.
Also if you happen to load out all 3 slots with Pssha Cons, that would make it a no brainer in your eyes, yes?
EZ PZ
Imagine my playercard is here
13 Aug 2018, 00:08 AM
#59
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Also if you happen to load out all 3 slots with Pssha Cons, that would make it a no brainer in your eyes, yes?
Do you play the soviets at all? No one who does would ever do that
13 Aug 2018, 00:26 AM
#60
Posts: 911
Do you play the soviets at all? No one who does would ever do that
Sure, but in that case it would be a "no brainer," right?
Imagine my playercard is here
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