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Lorch Assault

28 Jun 2018, 18:55 PM
#1
avatar of Rosbone
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1104 | Subs: 2

Made a new version of Lorch Assault to show things that could save this map from being extremely boring.

ROSBONE ASSAULT
This map suffers from being a 1v1 at the bottom and being too narrow in the middle. The middle bridge was removed and a southern castle passage was created to aid in flanking. There is now a path down the center of the castle that a KT can fit thru! You can now drive a KT from north to south right thru the center of the castle.


1. Opened large southern castle path. Due to the layout of the castle, the west is still a little stronger since they have a shorter flanking path to the south thru the castle. But this map has never been close to balanced so...

2. Removed bridge and added large flanking area north of castle.


3. Added the missing territory point and balanced territories. moved Fuel points to be closer to front lines and draw more action to the south(usually ignored).


4. Added a house on North West side to mirror East side.
5. Added a flanking path in north west area.


6. Repositioned and added garrisons in south to free up space and balance garrison strength. southern battle were always all-or-nothing. The east either won or had to retreat back to base. now each team has garrisons just outside the VP fighting area to fall back to and keep the fight going.
7. Moved southern VP to be balanced, was too far west.



28 Jun 2018, 20:18 PM
#2
avatar of GI John 412

Posts: 495 | Subs: 1

Looks great! More well balanced maps are always a good thing. Keep up the good work.
29 Jun 2018, 09:30 AM
#3
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 5063 | Subs: 19

I will give this a look and try

--> yellow
29 Jun 2018, 09:51 AM
#4
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1064

Nice work but this map really need change ? This castle with infatry only is very orginal right now and 1vs1 at bottom is something u will not normaly see in games 4vs4
29 Jun 2018, 09:57 AM
#5
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 5063 | Subs: 19

Nice work but this map really need change ? This castle with infatry only is very orginal right now and 1vs1 at bottom is something u will not normaly see in games 4vs4


I did not said, that i agree to all his points :)

Yeah putting a KT or Tiger or IS2 in the castle would be a free VP for ever.
29 Jun 2018, 11:32 AM
#6
avatar of Rosbone
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1104 | Subs: 2

Nice work but this map really need change ? This castle with infatry only is very orginal right now and 1vs1 at bottom is something u will not normally see in games 4vs4

The idea for the change in the castle was to reduce the 1v1 feel of the bottom. When you sit in que for 10 minutes to get a 4v4 game, it is very annoying to end up getting a 1v1 game. Now northern team mates can flank down through center of the castle and attack south or pop out the sides and cap fuel. Most games I play, whoever gets stuck at bottom is not happy. When I get stuck down there I sometimes just push mid and never even bother going south.

Another issue is CQC units being OP in the vineyards, south, and castle. Opening it up may give med and long range units a better chance.

The KT fitting in the castle was not planned, it just happens to fit thru the main hallway. Since there is only one way in/out, I am sure the path will be mined all the time.

I actually would like to open large paths from the sides as well and make a cross through the middle. But I thought that would really destroy the feel of the map. If I move the fuel and open the castle, no one will go north anymore. Could open the castle and move fuel north?

I think the key changes are:
1. Removing the norths bridge into the castle. This now opens up the middle a lot.
2. Moving the fuels to somehow be more contested. By moving them closer to the castle we get more play around the castle (the main focus of the map, that never sees any play).
3. Opening the south area and balancing. With the fuels being more south maybe now two teams will actually push south early game, and then push over to the enemies fuel. We may see less early push-the-church strats.

These changes will give teams more options. They are not limited to just boring mortar fights mid and a 1v1 south. If south gets overrun late game, the mid could get flanked through the mid, the castle, and around its side.
5 Jul 2018, 01:18 AM
#7
avatar of Rosbone
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1104 | Subs: 2

Final mod ideas to Rosbone Assault

1. Bottom Before / After. Building right of VP is approx center. If East loses the battle they have NOTHING to fight back into and they are farther away from the battle.
Castle opening in south reduced to allow infantry only :(



2. Additional passage opened on east side of castle.


3. Inside castle area opened up to allow better battles. With fuels closer to the castle, there may be reason to actually take the castle and fill it with mortars (as the loading screen implies). There is a lot of room for brit mortars/bofors/OST bunkers etc. Brit mortar and bofors fit tightly in original version. There is now reason to utilize areas of the castle never before used to mortar into mid and south fighting positions.



4. Large beautiful crevice/canyon/gorge in front of castle removed to open the area for fighting. This should reduce the neck down MG-mortar battles in mid every game. As stated above, may also involve the castle now. Before units had to pass down the long narrow bridge giving the enemy a chance to adjust. Now the flank will be much faster.



5. Territory Before/After. Notice original map is missing a territory point on east side. New map also has south east base moved closer to middle of map for balance.


5 Jul 2018, 03:21 AM
#8
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 2966

Nice. This was always a conceptually cool map but very boring to play on.
5 Jul 2018, 12:53 PM
#9
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 5063 | Subs: 19

Final mod ideas to Rosbone Assault

1. Bottom Before / After. Building right of VP is approx center. If East loses the battle they have NOTHING to fight back into and they are farther away from the battle.
Castle opening in south reduced to allow infantry only :(



2. Additional passage opened on east side of castle.


3. Inside castle area opened up to allow better battles. With fuels closer to the castle, there may be reason to actually take the castle and fill it with mortars (as the loading screen implies). There is a lot of room for brit mortars/bofors/OST bunkers etc. Brit mortar and bofors fit tightly in original version. There is now reason to utilize areas of the castle never before used to mortar into mid and south fighting positions.



4. Large beautiful crevice/canyon/gorge in front of castle removed to open the area for fighting. This should reduce the neck down MG-mortar battles in mid every game. As stated above, may also involve the castle now. Before units had to pass down the long narrow bridge giving the enemy a chance to adjust. Now the flank will be much faster.



5. Territory Before/After. Notice original map is missing a territory point on east side. New map also has south east base moved closer to middle of map for balance.




Nice you heard and did what i sugguest on the stream.
Thank you.
Will look probably next week into this map again.(Checking if i can see any bugs/ mistakes)
9 Jul 2018, 11:10 AM
#10
avatar of Rosbone
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1104 | Subs: 2

Will look probably next week into this map again.(Checking if i can see any bugs/ mistakes)

Always double check peoples work! The person making the changes MUST NOT be the person doing quality checks. They WILL MISS STUFF.

For some reason ALL of the maps have most of their objects set manually for height. So slight elevation changes leave objects floating in mid air or underground where they block pathing but cannot be seen.
9 Jul 2018, 16:13 PM
#11
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 5063 | Subs: 19

Tested the south vp and the new castle again.

--> Green for me
9 Aug 2018, 20:19 PM
#12
avatar of Rosbone
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1104 | Subs: 2

Final version posted to steam as (6-8) Lorch Assault

*Note south vp buildings moved east.
24 Sep 2018, 14:00 PM
#13
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 2445 | Subs: 5

I like the new middle section and the North-South road through the castle. Can't wait to see how these new changes will play out (PS don't forget to change the loading screen, lol).


For any further future improvements has opening up West and East entrances into the castle for vehicles as well ever been considered? This would further help to remedy the 1v1 bottom problem as it would open up a way for the second-to-bottom player to become involved in the castle VP. This would further decrease the boring middle muni/VP meatgrinder and would open up flanking routes for this player to come up behind the middle defenses through the castle passage (you can do this with infantry now but it's a death sentence due to the retreat paths usually taking your squads back through the middle).

IMO large sections of a map being impassable (I think Port of Hamburg's canals do the same) is always bad for strategic gameplay as it hinders flanking a lot, makes attacks too predictable and static defensive lines too good.

I think the infantry only castle was a cool idea but it hasn't really worked and it is time to fully include the area into semi-regular gameplay. The new N-S passage will definitely help but I think there's more needed to shift the focus.
24 Sep 2018, 15:52 PM
#14
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 5063 | Subs: 19

I like the new middle section and the North-South road through the castle. Can't wait to see how these new changes will play out (PS don't forget to change the loading screen, lol).


For any further future improvements has opening up West and East entrances into the castle for vehicles as well ever been considered? This would further help to remedy the 1v1 bottom problem as it would open up a way for the second-to-bottom player to become involved in the castle VP. This would further decrease the boring middle muni/VP meatgrinder and would open up flanking routes for this player to come up behind the middle defenses through the castle passage (you can do this with infantry now but it's a death sentence due to the retreat paths usually taking your squads back through the middle).

IMO large sections of a map being impassable (I think Port of Hamburg's canals do the same) is always bad for strategic gameplay as it hinders flanking a lot, makes attacks too predictable and static defensive lines too good.

I think the infantry only castle was a cool idea but it hasn't really worked and it is time to fully include the area into semi-regular gameplay. The new N-S passage will definitely help but I think there's more needed to shift the focus.


Its a shame, that you did not saw this here for 2-3 months ago ;)
And rosebone first made the castle vehicle able ( you could have a KT in it xD) But I declined it.
24 Sep 2018, 18:24 PM
#15
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 2445 | Subs: 5

A real shame indeed! Just planting the idea though in case there's ever a follow-up map revamp. :D
5 Oct 2018, 10:10 AM
#16
avatar of Case Blau

Posts: 2

Permanently Banned
Path leading to the castle should be along the walls of it and rocks, not this straight road. Adding more flanking routs should be consealed, so they dont look out of place. If you change something try to atleast make it natural in enviorment.
5 Oct 2018, 16:01 PM
#17
avatar of Rosbone
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1104 | Subs: 2

Path leading to the castle should be along the walls of it and rocks, not this straight road. Adding more flanking routs should be consealed, so they dont look out of place. If you change something try to atleast make it natural in enviorment.

Reasons:
1) Originally making this opening would allow vehicles to path thru the castle.
2) It mirrors the entrance to the north for symmetry.
3) The castle already paths close the sides for flanking.
4) Having paths that lead to the sides more would allow the team on that side control of the path. They could wire it off easily. Having it in the middle would put it more in the contested area, so no side may have control of it during initial engagements.
5) To make it a true infantry flanking path, you may want sight blockers which would reduce the engagement area south of the new paths.
6) I doubt there were many functioning castles in WW2. So the one large opening theoretically leads into a park area where vacationers would gather before touring the castle.

The original thought was to have a more direct path to the fight for the south VP to make it less of a 1v1 situation. Making it as short as possible for shock value. And like I stated, it would be cool if all of a sudden a vehicle came rushing out of the castle Twisted Tootsy style :)

Sadly, we could have used your artistic opinion 2 months ago when the changes were due.
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