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Ideas on how to rebalance Charkov

17 Jun 2018, 09:01 AM
#1
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 1443

We all know Charkov north is terrible.

In the north you have two houses with plenty of windows right next to the fuel. So southern player can rush it and camp there very easily. (UKF and OKW mainly). In the south there are two irrelevant houses almost midway between fuel and base and then one useless (due to lack of windows) house next to the fuel. That means that if northern player decides to rush the southern fuel he can´t use a garrison to camp and wait for more units to arrive.

Even though this house is useless for north the southern player can put an MG in there to cover both fuel and cut off. It can be flanked but it still is a decent position. Northern spawn doesn´t have this luxury because the trees block vision from fuel house to cut off.

That means that if northern player decides to rush the southern fuel he can´t use a garrison to camp and wait for more units to arrive but the southern player can.


This is what I mean:






So my proposal:

1. Remove the sight blocker in the north so the MG can cover the fuel cut off.

2. Move the big house that is situated between muni and fuel point in the north away towards base. Basically mirroring southern fuel point garrisons in a way.
17 Jun 2018, 10:08 AM
#2
avatar of adamírcz

Posts: 674 | Subs: 1

Yeah, this along with Moscow is probably the most unbalanced map.
Not sure if I properly understand the second solution, but the first one is a no brainer
17 Jun 2018, 10:11 AM
#3
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 1443

Yeah, this along with Moscow is probably the most unbalanced map.
Not sure if I properly understand the second solution, but the first one is a no brainer



I actually disagree. Minsk north is even worse IMO. The buildings on the right make it so hard to advance if opponent knows what he is doing.
17 Jun 2018, 10:21 AM
#4
avatar of adamírcz

Posts: 674 | Subs: 1




I actually disagree. Minsk north is even worse IMO. The buildings on the right make it so hard to advance if opponent knows what he is doing.

Yeah, Minsk is another disgrace, but there, you have plenty of blindspots, or you can just go mid and the other flank, while here, its the most essential place of the map bein basically gifted to the attacker
20 Jun 2018, 10:01 AM
#5
avatar of Imperial Dane
Caster Badge

Posts: 1549 | Subs: 8

Oohh.. Kharkov.

1 : Remove the map from the 2v2 map pool. It's a 1v1 map and it in no way fit for 2v2s. Full Stop.

2 : The major issue with this map besides the northern cut off being an absolutely bastard is that most of the buildings favour the southern player. Since most buildings either have poor windows or poor fields of fire towards the south whereas for the north it tends to be the opposite. So most of the houses needs a look at in terms of positioning and fields of fire to be honest.

20 Jun 2018, 15:05 PM
#6
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 3163 | Subs: 1

I think the map should just be removed in general. It's too narrow to organize proper flanks. Try playing as USF against 3x 42 on a ultra narrow map.
20 Jun 2018, 17:12 PM
#7
avatar of d0ggY
Senior Caster Badge

Posts: 752 | Subs: 3

North Cutoff should get a rounded up Hedge too imo. That would be fair. Also Hedge that denies sight to cutoff on the north fuel, the left building, should get removed so sight is a bit better. In counter to that change i would give that small hut on south kharkov the model of the houses like on moscow fuel. The houses on the left also help south spawn much more. But on the fast run i have no real right now on how to change taht into.. "balance".

What could also help is the ways to the battlefield from North base to be a bit shortened in some way, like stretch the battlefield more to the North, more fighting space, better point spreading on the right side, and it'd be fine
20 Jun 2018, 17:46 PM
#8
avatar of Nosliw

Posts: 515

I think the solutions are to either remove the map, or to make the layout of the north identical to the south - not aesthetically, but the garrisons/cover/LOS blockers should be equivalent.
20 Jun 2018, 19:06 PM
#9
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 4816 | Subs: 14

Hey to everyone:Let me explain 1 thing:
Ofc I knew already before DBP that this map is unbalanced as fuck. But I had no chance at this point to rework this map. But this time this map is in the project; that's for sure.

So let's get rid of the north cufoff/fuel situation :)
21 Jun 2018, 05:04 AM
#10
avatar of Rosbone
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 883 | Subs: 2

I am a 2v2 nub but as a mapper I would do the following:

1. Get rid of one of the fuel garrisons at each end of the map(RED).

2. Either move the south fuel garrison to the north or move the north garrison even further north.

3. Rearrange buildings 1 and 2. They are way to far north. They both need to come south by about 20 meters or more. They are also oriented square to the enemy, where 3+4 are at weird angles which may make an MG search to find targets.

4. The middle sight blockers need opened up(YELLOW TRIANGLES). This map always feels cluttered and narrow with major late game engagments happening in the little corridor created by the sight blockers. The angle is opposite of the base locations. So vehicles have to manuever thru a wall of team weapons(YELLOW DOTS) then turn abruptly to fight. Then retreat into said wall of team weapons. Then enjoy some nice artillery fire because everything is clumped in the little pocket by the cutoffs.

5. The long rock walls in center MUST have at least one opening added near the middle. Big enough for team weapons/light vehicles to get thru easily.

26 Jun 2018, 17:59 PM
#11
avatar of Mittens
Donator 11

Posts: 1251

IMO north cut off is too open and hard to protect as you only have two ways in and out with even a building with semi-coverage.
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