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SBP Change Notes

19 May 2018, 18:52 PM
#61
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

I feel like that would be too similar to other factions. Yet another engineer unit with a flamethrower. Putting it on the already powerful Sturms could be very OP as well. Just give the flame grenade to the Sturms and a regular grenade to Volks.


If flamer Sturms were OP wouldn't we see a lot more of Feuersturm doctrine?
19 May 2018, 19:02 PM
#62
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

jump backJump back to quoted post19 May 2018, 18:52 PMLago


If flamer Sturms were OP wouldn't we see a lot more of Feuersturm doctrine?


I don't think the okw tech tree need flamesturm, assuming the volks get HE nade.

both the medical and LV truck get artillery.

Okay, lv truck isn't that great at handling building, but it's a LV building. You shouldn't be building it if the map have lots of building.
19 May 2018, 19:02 PM
#63
avatar of GI John 412

Posts: 495 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post19 May 2018, 18:52 PMLago


If flamer Sturms were OP wouldn't we see a lot more of Feuersturm doctrine?


Possibly.

The feuersturm doctrine is very specialized and doesn’t have great tools for the late game such as the ever popular command panther. If the flamethrower was always available to Sturm pios then we would see how strong they really are.

Either way, putting flamethrower on Sturm pios is yet another way to homogenize the factions in an ever increasingly homogenized game. My vote is to leave the flamethrower upgrade as a doctrine specific thing like US rear eschelon flamethrowers.

19 May 2018, 19:12 PM
#64
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

Maybe. I guess both OKW tiers have a heavier garrison clearer now.
19 May 2018, 20:37 PM
#65
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4

Although lowering the amount of flamenades available would be good, sturms are just relied upon too much. They're supposed to sweep, repair, be AT with pschrecks, be the close quaters assualt unit, and then you want to put the garrison clear on them as well? They also have difficulty getting past vet 2 in most games and fall off once weapon upgrades come online.

20 May 2018, 07:47 AM
#66
avatar of Rocket

Posts: 728

Although lowering the amount of flamenades available would be good, sturms are just relied upon too much. They're supposed to sweep, repair, be AT with pschrecks, be the close quaters assualt unit, and then you want to put the garrison clear on them as well? They also have difficulty getting past vet 2 in most games and fall off once weapon upgrades come online.

lol okay what do RE usf or brits do, dont win the first battles ever unlesss your oppnet is retarded and then just repair shit, rear echleon maybe double zooks, sturms have the shrek option. Try vetting either RE that cant fight at the start of the game with out upgrades.
20 May 2018, 08:36 AM
#67
avatar of zarok47

Posts: 587

Lovely, reverted the 222 armor buff and increased it's AI, because what Ostheer needs above all else is more AI (251 flame ht, pgrens, lmg grens, snipers and mortar) and not a lv that doesn't have to be repaired every 5 seconds so it can actually deter allied lv's.

Just lovely.
20 May 2018, 12:27 PM
#68
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

jump backJump back to quoted post20 May 2018, 08:36 AMzarok47
Lovely, reverted the 222 armor buff and increased it's AI, because what Ostheer needs above all else is more AI (251 flame ht, pgrens, lmg grens, snipers and mortar) and not a lv that doesn't have to be repaired every 5 seconds so it can actually deter allied lv's.

Just lovely.


Puma?
Not
20 May 2018, 13:40 PM
#69
avatar of Not

Posts: 46

SOV now has 60 ammo PPSH package against 45 ammo MP40 volks package (with HE and smoke grenades not requiring upgrade in HQ). Nice!
And about the anti-garrison OKW tools, they already have the strongest starter unit among all factions, that is why flame nade is kinda sucks not paying for its upgrade. Since all building have their weak spots, like having only one window or not at all, this is an ability for sturms to abuse it.
And for christ sake, make a area heal type in HQ with the Ost med bunker one. Healing takes a lot of time, can be bugged easily with those human heal dispencer, making just staying in base waiting for heal waste of time.
20 May 2018, 14:41 PM
#70
avatar of Taksin02

Posts: 148

what about giving volk normal grenade (35MU) from start and then replace or side upgrade with the incendiary one after 1 truck setup?
20 May 2018, 15:00 PM
#71
avatar of zarok47

Posts: 587

jump backJump back to quoted post20 May 2018, 12:27 PMLago


Puma?


Doctrinal solution to a non-doctrinal problem.
20 May 2018, 16:45 PM
#72
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4

jump backJump back to quoted post20 May 2018, 07:47 AMRocket
lol okay what do RE usf or brits do, dont win the first battles ever unlesss your oppnet is retarded and then just repair shit, rear echleon maybe double zooks, sturms have the shrek option. Try vetting either RE that cant fight at the start of the game with out upgrades.


USF mortar overrated? Oh wait i think it just got buffed. probs bad. What do you want to do with brits? They have argueably the strongest starting squad. REs are fine against ostheer unless you're retarded with them. What does OKW have vs 2x BAR rifles lategame? OKW has a damage window, USF has a damage window. I'm shocked.

Who even gets a single schreck on sturms when you need a sweeper. A single schreck makes no difference to the OKW arsenal.

Vetting REs is WAY easier than vetting sturms. Want vet REs? Throw them into a tank and start dealing damage. Easy vet. Don't have tanks? Givem zooks or BARs. Way better than trying to charge vet 0-1 sturms into upgraded infantry lategame.
20 May 2018, 17:19 PM
#73
avatar of swordfisch

Posts: 138

I just think getting StG's AND flame nades for free with tech is too much, especially when sturms can just throw out cheap healing now. Other five man squads like Rifles or Tommies need to pay for these things (Ambo, BARS, nades etc).

Yes Grens get LMG and rifle nade for free but they are 4 man...

Bundle both StG and nade together and make them a 150mp 15-20fuel upgrade. Early and midgame OKW are just a bit too good, despite them being a lategame faction. This also has the effect of making OKW doctrines with Flamer sturms or inf nades more appealing.

I just think the 4 volk meta and upgrading them is a bit brainless at the moment, so make it 20f upgrade and then throw in a small MG34 buff. Then I think OKW early-mid game will be pretty balanced.
20 May 2018, 17:45 PM
#74
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4

Yeah sure we can make StG side tech, so long as volks scale as well as rifles :)
20 May 2018, 18:02 PM
#75
avatar of FelixTHM

Posts: 503 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post20 May 2018, 07:47 AMRocket
lol okay what do RE usf or brits do, dont win the first battles ever unlesss your oppnet is retarded and then just repair shit, rear echleon maybe double zooks, sturms have the shrek option. Try vetting either RE that cant fight at the start of the game with out upgrades.



When you talk about Shreks on Sturms you forfeit your right to balance discussions :D
20 May 2018, 18:05 PM
#76
avatar of Mcq_knight

Posts: 44

Maybe im off base, but was there a dicsussion om giving the Tiger ace fuel cost +and+ keep the same penalties?
20 May 2018, 18:28 PM
#77
avatar of Butcher

Posts: 1217

Maybe im off base, but was there a dicsussion om giving the Tiger ace fuel cost +and+ keep the same penalties?
I haven't seen a discussion about it. I think the penalty needs to go. You get punished and could just go for a regular Tiger for about the same initial cost which is only slightly weaker and can be called in again after a loss. Keeping the penalty is just overkill now.

As I mentioned somewhere else, punishing a player for keeping a unit alife isn't good game design.
20 May 2018, 18:47 PM
#78
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

jump backJump back to quoted post20 May 2018, 07:47 AMRocket
lol okay what do RE usf or brits do, dont win the first battles ever unlesss your oppnet is retarded and then just repair shit, rear echleon maybe double zooks, sturms have the shrek option. Try vetting either RE that cant fight at the start of the game with out upgrades.


against axis it's either the wehr or okw.

RE is still good enough against pio, and wehr usually go barrack build, leading to victory by default.

the problem is actually re/brit vs sturm. I would usually give the sturm the advantage in the initial rush.

Yeah sure we can make StG side tech, so long as volks scale as well as rifles :)


the biggest reason rifle got the terminator veterancy because their 30% acc 23% def was inferior to the grenadier's 40% acc 23% def.

how about we standardize veterancy for line infantry to 30% 23% def for everyone?
20 May 2018, 19:24 PM
#79
avatar of Mcq_knight

Posts: 44

jump backJump back to quoted post20 May 2018, 18:28 PMButcher
I haven't seen a discussion about it. I think the penalty needs to go. You get punished and could just go for a regular Tiger for about the same initial cost which is only slightly weaker and can be called in again after a loss. Keeping the penalty is just overkill now.

As I mentioned somewhere else, punishing a player for keeping a unit alife isn't good game design.


Agreed.

Some penalty is in order for the free vet, but the 90% or whatever it is is now excessive.
20 May 2018, 19:39 PM
#80
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4



against axis it's either the wehr or okw.

RE is still good enough against pio, and wehr usually go barrack build, leading to victory by default.

the problem is actually re/brit vs sturm. I would usually give the sturm the advantage in the initial rush.



the biggest reason rifle got the terminator veterancy because their 30% acc 23% def was inferior to the grenadier's 40% acc 23% def.

how about we standardize veterancy for line infantry to 30% 23% def for everyone?


Nope. Balance team would never go for standarized vet.
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