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idea about fallschirmjager

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thedarkarmadillo
8 May 2018, 19:15 PM
#41
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jump backJump back to quoted post8 May 2018, 15:49 PMKatitof

Well, every other infiltrator isn't exactly a master of matrix dodging either.

The most durable would be storms I believe?
All others are pretty damn fragile and most certainly ineffective at all ranges.

(inb4 someone rushes in drooling and screaming commandos, check out their scaling first)


Its more a dig at brit mainline having more dodge than a doctrinal elite unit AND the ability to 5 man because reasons.

Partisans are a boat load cheaper so its understandable for them to not be terribly durable,
Storms are fine as is, they seem just durable enough for elite forces but not too strong as to make them. To easy to use.

Pathfinders/ JLI are a different breed of unit so i dont think they can count in this discussion

And commandos while they DO have range restrictions they also get demos and a bonus attacking out of stealth and iirc have a silly high rec acc (isn't it towards something like .6?) And an extra model.

O dont see any reason for falls to not be .8 RA. Its a small buff but i think its a reasonable one given their price and thus reinforcement.
#stalinwept
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Firesparks
9 May 2018, 01:32 AM
#42
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jump backJump back to quoted post8 May 2018, 15:19 PMStein Grenadier


Falls target size is 0.87.


jump backJump back to quoted post8 May 2018, 19:15 PMthedarkarmadillo


O dont see any reason for falls to not be .8 RA. Its a small buff but i think its a reasonable one given their price and thus reinforcement.


it is .83.


fallschirmjagger doesn't feel bad. They just felt overpriced atm. Maybe if they were 350 mp 8 pop.

jump backJump back to quoted post8 May 2018, 11:54 AMStein Grenadier
440 or 380MP, it's still a fragile and expensive unit.

You can nitpick specific details, but it won't change the fact that Falls are glass cannons that fit a specific niche.


fallschirmjager's problem is actually because they try to be everything at once.

They have stationary-cloak with good at all range fg42 and can be deployed everywhere. They are trying to be mix of line infantry and ninja.

But US and UK airborne are both significantly better at their own role.




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Stein Grenadier
9 May 2018, 03:56 AM
#43
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jump backJump back to quoted post9 May 2018, 01:32 AMFiresparks

it is .83.

fallschirmjagger doesn't feel bad. They just felt overpriced atm. Maybe if they were 350 mp 8 pop.

fallschirmjager's problem is actually because they try to be everything at once.

They have stationary-cloak with good at all range fg42 and can be deployed everywhere. They are trying to be mix of line infantry and ninja.

But US and UK airborne are both significantly better at their own role.


I've taken the liberty of looking around the official changelog to check for RA changes for Falls- It's been 0.87 since 2014 and none of the succeeding updates mentioned any more changes towards its RA.

Compared to Paras, Falls don't have to pay munis for long-range or short-range DPS.

Compared to Commandos, Falls don't magically lose half their DPS at medium range or have their bullets turned into nerf pellets at long range.

It's a bad idea to make them cheaper because they'll be even more cost-effective- Sure, they're comparatively more expensive to reinforce, but when you lose them, they won't take munis spent on weapon upgrades to the grave, or worse, give it to the enemy.
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thedarkarmadillo
9 May 2018, 04:04 AM
#44
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Might as well make it .8 then if its .83 for the sake of constancy. Been playing with them in light of the discussion and i dont think THEY are the problem so much as penals, tommys,rifles and rack weapons letting 2/3 of them hit like elite infantry without the upkeep of it.
#stalinwept
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Firesparks
9 May 2018, 05:14 AM
#45
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jump backJump back to quoted post9 May 2018, 03:56 AMStein Grenadier


I've taken the liberty of looking around the official changelog to check for RA changes for Falls- It's been 0.87 since 2014 and none of the succeeding updates mentioned any more changes towards its RA.


the mod tool have FS target size as .83.

it is possible the files in the mod tool is wrong, since it's reading a copy, not the files directly.


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ullumulu
9 May 2018, 05:52 AM
#46
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jump backJump back to quoted post8 May 2018, 14:23 PMKatitof

Guards do not have:

-weapons effective at all ranges




In which range are guards dps are low? Enlight me pls. They deal in far, close and mid range very good dps...on open fiel they beat obers in every range. You must have false in data in your head---again.
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The_Flying_Flail
9 May 2018, 05:54 AM
#47
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I think they should stay the same. 400 manpower is already pricey enough for an elite unit. Nerfing fg42 to an upgrade would be like giving commandos rifles instead of sten or shock troopers with mosin. Shock troopers alread do this but its a weaker version of panzer gren.
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Firesparks
9 May 2018, 05:59 AM
#48
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jump backJump back to quoted post9 May 2018, 05:54 AMThe_Flying_Flail
I think they should stay the same. 400 manpower is already pricey enough for an elite unit. Nerfing fg42 to an upgrade would be like giving commandos rifles instead of sten or shock troopers with mosin. Shock troopers alread do this but its a weaker version of panzer gren.


presumably the FS will get a cost reduction.

Here's the problem:

spawning in with FG42 was a huge advantage when they spawned from building. It allow them to shock nearby units similar to party crashing commandos.

Right now the FS paradrop in, which is actually too vulnerable, too obvious and too slow to take full advantage of the fact they get fg42 by default.


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Vipper
9 May 2018, 07:29 AM
#49
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jump backJump back to quoted post9 May 2018, 03:56 AMStein Grenadier


I've taken the liberty of looking around the official changelog to check for RA changes for Falls- It's been 0.87 since 2014 and none of the succeeding updates mentioned any more changes towards its RA.
....


As I already posted here:

Fallschirmjäger
Fallschirmjager are being adjusted to have better stock performance with only minor changes to their veterancy.

Now paradrop into the field instead of infiltrating.
Cost from 440 to 380
Reinforce cost from 38 to 36
Population from 8 to 9
Received accuracy from 0.87 to 0.83
Faust range from 15 to 18
Camouflages in cover when stationary; requires no veterancy
Veterancy 5 range bonus removed
Veterancy 3 received accuracy bonus removed
Veterancy 4 accuracy bonus moved to veterancy 3
Veterancy 3 now provides a -20% weapon cooldown
Veterancy requirements from 760/1520/3040/3800/5054 to 600/1200/2400/3000/3900

It is in the commander changes, since it is a doctrinal unit
:)
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Stein Grenadier
9 May 2018, 07:42 AM
#50
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jump backJump back to quoted post9 May 2018, 07:29 AMVipper


As I already posted here:

Fallschirmjäger

...


Rather odd that that change was in its own thread rather than in the supposed compiled changelog I mentioned.

I made a mistake in the RA values.

Though my opinion won't change. It's still a relatively fragile (to other elites) and expensive combat unit with a long battlefield cue and arrival.

Making the FGs a weapon upgrade is something I disagree on.
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Vipper
9 May 2018, 07:58 AM
#51
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jump backJump back to quoted post9 May 2018, 07:42 AMStein Grenadier


Rather odd that that change was in its own thread rather than in the supposed compiled changelog I mentioned.

I made a mistake in the RA values.

Though my opinion won't change. It's still a relatively fragile (to other elites) and expensive combat unit with a long battlefield cue and arrival.

Making the FGs a weapon upgrade is something I disagree on.

It is rather confusing (and sloppy) that commander changes have not made it to Patch notes.

Everyone makes mistakes from time to time, some learn from them other do not, some even pretent they didn't. But you did check the patch notes, imo it not even your fault if it was not there as it should.
:)
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