Login

russian armor

soviet mortar should not get flare by default

3 May 2018, 08:36 AM
#21
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

again you are ignoring the words and the meaning IT HAS TO GET IN RANGE didnt say anything about retreating. It gives info on the front line and allows the frontline to get slightly more accuratly targeted by barrages

Want OP? Try spec ops for OKW
All the benifits with none of the drawbacks.
And AGAIN i AGREE WITH YOU it needs to be pushed to vet but god forbid the soviet have a decent fucking vet ability. Flare mimes anyone? How bout every one? Oh how bout you use that kv-2 and go cap some territory. Look! Your td knows where the nearby infantry is! +1 shell to barrages. Pay munitions for a SLIGHTLY aimes but shorter katy barrage! Only the redone abilities are anything more than actual garbage....
3 May 2018, 09:55 AM
#22
3 May 2018, 13:35 PM
#23
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1226



how often is the mortar going to retreat? especially a mortar crew with 6 men? The soviet sniper also take some time to get to vet 1 as well.

lastly the mortar flare is also cheaper than the sniper flare (40) and the major recon (50).



the pioneer get 42 sight, compared to the usual 35.

scouting unit like the m20 get 50 by default and 60 vetted.

they are still no where as convenient or powerful as the flare. It's an extremely safe scouting ability and also one of the most effective.

Scouting unit at least require you to get within weapon range and stay there.



units revealed by infrared still count as being in FOW, hence artillery will still suffer the usual 25% scatter penalty. Flare remove FOW and hence improve the effectiveness of artillery. Beside, the Leig lost its 100m range a while back.

the mortar flare is also 30 mu, not 40 mu. The one on the soviet is 40 mu and have a shorter range at 50m.



81mm: 4 sec reload + 4 wind down/up + .5 fire aim time = 8.5
barrage: 0 reload + 4 w d/u + .125 FAT = 4.125


82mm: 7.5 sec reload + 3.125 windw down/up + .5 fire aim time = 11.125
barrage: 3.575 reload + 3.125 windw down/up + .125 FAT = 6.825

11.125/ 8.5 = 1.30

the 82mm auto fire is 30% slower and the barrage fire is 70% slower.

people way overblown the ROF advantage ost mortar have over the sov.


I remember the flare costing 40 muni. I could be wrong here. I almost never get a sniper so i dont know the cost of his flare.

Do you use regular/ground attack or barrage to clear out a building or weapon team? 70% better barrage and 30% better rof vs 30% more hp. That 2 to 1 advantidge ost.

I dont know the rof stats etc for counter barrage. But that is still better then the flares. Range dps vs sight and small acc boost.
So how i see it, its 3 to 1 advantidge ost mortar.

But if the all mortars rof go towards sov level rof in this patch, its a different story alltogether.

3 May 2018, 18:30 PM
#24
avatar of murky depths

Posts: 607




the 82mm auto fire is 30% slower and the barrage fire is 70% slower.

people way overblown the ROF advantage ost mortar have over the sov.


... What? These two statements seem contradictory to me, in what world is 30~70% better not a huge advantage?
3 May 2018, 22:30 PM
#25
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279



... What? These two statements seem contradictory to me, in what world is 30~70% better not a huge advantage?

No but a 25% accuracy boost for a munitions costfor barrages is gamebreaking and needs removed
4 May 2018, 01:43 AM
#26
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930



... What? These two statements seem contradictory to me, in what world is 30~70% better not a huge advantage?


most people seems to think the ost mortar fire 3x or 2x faster than the soviet mortar.

and the rof on the soviet mortar is fine. It is factually less destructive than the ost mortar but still serve its function if you use the barrage ability.

Instead of giving the sov mortar such a powerful ability by default, the ost should have been nerfed in some way instead.

(yes, they are doing that now, but the sov is still going to keep the vet 0 flare.)
4 May 2018, 08:14 AM
#27
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1226



most people seems to think the ost mortar fire 3x or 2x faster than the soviet mortar.

and the rof on the soviet mortar is fine. It is factually less destructive than the ost mortar but still serve its function if you use the barrage ability.

Instead of giving the sov mortar such a powerful ability by default, the ost should have been nerfed in some way instead.

(yes, they are doing that now, but the sov is still going to keep the vet 0 flare.)


The ost mortar almost fires 2 times as fast. So its not unreasonable to state that.

The fact that it is less destructive overall the the ost mortar. Speeks volumes to why the soviet mortar never should have cost the same as the ost one in the first place.
The ost one can break attacks, clear out posistions counterbarrage and smoke. It can do all faster then its counterpart. The soviet one can smoke, spot for muni cost and has more hp. Its dps is pittyfull. This does not justify the same prices.


The flare is only worth while if you have other arty to take advantidge of its use. Meaning another 240mp is needed just to make it worth while.
With just one mortar its about 2 to 3 rounds that you can fire under the flare.
4 May 2018, 12:05 PM
#28
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

sure remove the soviet flare but likewise remove the IR Halftrack and nerf the stuka zu fuss to katyusha levels... its not like the russians have a maphack ability that can match the IR Halftrack
4 May 2018, 12:25 PM
#29
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1976 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post4 May 2018, 12:05 PMgbem
sure remove the soviet flare but likewise remove the IR Halftrack and nerf the stuka zu fuss to katyusha levels... its not like the russians have a maphack ability that can match the IR Halftrack


I think that the T-70 1st vet level should be scouting like Valentine.
4 May 2018, 14:38 PM
#30
avatar of murky depths

Posts: 607

I'd argue the opposite, that the IR/maphacks should be like the t-70.
4 May 2018, 14:46 PM
#31
avatar of Felinewolfie

Posts: 867 | Subs: 5

I'd rather give flares to all factions. USF especially when I play them I find their tools very powerful, but I can never get vision on hunkered down opponets to pick away with my jackson or find a soft flanking spot. M20 doesn't cut it lategame due to fragility and I'm not too fond of sending in a rifleman to be shot at by an MG42.


I'd rather give infantry self-heal and recrew/medic/free mg bunkers to soviets.
I'd rather give tank decrew and 25x tank armies to OKW and Wehr
I'd rather give Panthers to USA.
I'd rather...

Make every faction the same and every unit have the same stat and be cookie cutter of each other?

You'd can't do it partially. It's all or nothing.
Hmmm. T34/85s with Panther stats.
Churchill with Tiger stats.

The game is either assymetric or mirror balance. It can't be both. Choose.

Should Panzer 4 have same stats as Sherman 75?

And, yes, it means all factions having the exact same commanders as each other.
4 May 2018, 14:53 PM
#32
avatar of Felinewolfie

Posts: 867 | Subs: 5

jump backJump back to quoted post4 May 2018, 12:05 PMgbem
sure remove the soviet flare but likewise remove the IR Halftrack and nerf the stuka zu fuss to katyusha levels... its not like the russians have a maphack ability that can match the IR Halftrack


- And remove soviet flare from soviet sniper and replace it with explosive round.
- Replace the Soviet flare from all soviet mortars with their old 100% precise strike
which they had before.

- Katyusha, Sherman Callioppe and Priest were all nerfed.
So it stands to reason that German artillery be nerfed too.

- Although recon planes, us major recon plane, 222, and, come to think of it,
snipers, and british pyro squads (improved vision), wehr scopes... (esp 222 + scope)
must be removed.

- Then vision of all units must be reduced to 1. Glorious Fog of war may thy reign be supreme!
4 May 2018, 14:59 PM
#34
avatar of Felinewolfie

Posts: 867 | Subs: 5



I think that the T-70 1st vet level should be scouting like Valentine.


+1 :) I love the idea. Make it so!
4 May 2018, 15:32 PM
#35
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4106 | Subs: 3



I'd rather give infantry self-heal and recrew/medic/free mg bunkers to soviets.
I'd rather give tank decrew and 25x tank armies to OKW and Wehr
I'd rather give Panthers to USA.
I'd rather...

Make every faction the same and every unit have the same stat and be cookie cutter of each other?

You'd can't do it partially. It's all or nothing.
Hmmm. T34/85s with Panther stats.
Churchill with Tiger stats.

The game is either assymetric or mirror balance. It can't be both. Choose.

Should Panzer 4 have same stats as Sherman 75?

And, yes, it means all factions having the exact same commanders as each other.


A flare is a tool used ingame to aid in a situation. A t34/85 with Tiger stats is just a laughable overperformace. There's no similarity there. Although the T34/85 based on price alone argueably matches the current Tiger, it's still asymmetric.
4 May 2018, 20:16 PM
#36
avatar of Swift

Posts: 2723 | Subs: 1

Invissed an offtopic post.

@FelineWolfie if you're going to post a lot, please condense things into one post, not four.
4 May 2018, 22:12 PM
#37
avatar of murky depths

Posts: 607



A flare is a tool used ingame to aid in a situation. A t34/85 with Tiger stats is just a laughable overperformace. There's no similarity there. Although the T34/85 based on price alone argueably matches the current Tiger, it's still asymmetric.


Minor nitpick, but he said t34-85 being equal to panther, not tiger.
6 May 2018, 07:19 AM
#38
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930


And AGAIN i AGREE WITH YOU it needs to be pushed to vet but god forbid the soviet have a decent fucking vet ability. Flare mimes anyone? How bout every one? Oh how bout you use that kv-2 and go cap some territory. Look! Your td knows where the nearby infantry is! +1 shell to barrages. Pay munitions for a SLIGHTLY aimes but shorter katy barrage! Only the redone abilities are anything more than actual garbage....


there's still the precision strike.
10 May 2018, 06:27 AM
#39
avatar of Diogenes5

Posts: 269

Flare is so retarded. Notice how every other faction that has a flare-type ability like recon only has it momentarily and it costs significantly more. A low-risk, low-cost OP ability that is often abused.

Flare should be gone. Period.
10 May 2018, 08:59 AM
#40
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1226

Its already low rof gets lower when one uses the flare.

I dont know the excact numbers, but in my experience a single mortar gets of about 2 shots while the flare is in the air.
Again to truly gain a benifit you need other arty. Meaning extra investment in arty needed to max out its use.

Also people should be carefull with what they wish for. Removing the flare could lead in bringing precision shot back.
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest
CoH1 Final Battle Grand Final

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • Oberkommando West flag Oziligath
  • The British Forces flag T.R. Sidewinder
uploaded by Oziligath

Board Info

283 users are online: 2 members and 281 guests
Smaug, DonnieChan
13 posts in the last 24h
217 posts in the last week
799 posts in the last month
Registered members: 33123
Welcome our newest member, Hjax
Most online: 1221 users on 25 Feb 2020, 12:03 PM