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russian armor

Cannot beat a classic

11 Apr 2018, 10:43 AM
#1
avatar of LeOverlord

Posts: 306

I encounter the same thing in EVERY game versus Axis. The combinations are the following :
3 Wehrmacht
2 Wehrmacht - 1 OKW
1 Wehrmacht - 2 OKW
3 OKW


The strategy? It's a classic. Machine gun teams in front, AT guns a couple meters behind, and behind those 2 lines, mortars. And these mortars have insane range, not to mention the laser accuracy, especially with the bulletin which adds 5% accuracy. Axis armor rolls in as if they want to refuel from a gas station.

Allied strategy? Flanking, Artillery barrages (wait, what? Barrages?), light armor attacks, combined arms attacks, mortar attacks, everything in our disposal. Head on attacks (we do that too), BUT... there is a big "but" here. Nothing works. Absolutely nothing. Even Company Commander combinations don't work.

So, the big question is... How do you win against those combinations of Axis?
11 Apr 2018, 10:58 AM
#2
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3190

That looks like every possible 3v3 combination to me.
11 Apr 2018, 13:39 PM
#3
avatar of LeOverlord

Posts: 306

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Apr 2018, 10:58 AMLago
That looks like every possible 3v3 combination to me.


And 4v4. It's impossible to penetrate their lines
11 Apr 2018, 13:56 PM
#4
avatar of Nosliw

Posts: 515

Go into CoH2 and use the spectate function to watch some high level 3v3 games.
11 Apr 2018, 14:36 PM
#5
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 3457 | Subs: 1

Wanna know what blocks MGs and AT guns LoS? smoke.
11 Apr 2018, 15:21 PM
#6
avatar of Rosbone
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 997 | Subs: 2

Last patch the best I ever saw was a brit using Commando Regiment. Combo of smoke raid and Assault abilites ran thru the MGs and REKT everything. Of course Brit commandos would decimate that line last patch as well. Have I been playing this game long enough to yearn for past patches (scared)
11 Apr 2018, 15:36 PM
#7
avatar of LeOverlord

Posts: 306

Wanna know what blocks MGs and AT guns LoS? smoke.


I use smokes. But when i negate the vision from the MG team, the MG nest behind it supresses the infantry denying the flanking routes. They set up a line
11 Apr 2018, 15:42 PM
#8
avatar of LeOverlord

Posts: 306

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Apr 2018, 15:21 PMRosbone
Last patch the best I ever saw was a brit using Commando Regiment. Combo of smoke raid and Assault abilites ran thru the MGs and REKT everything. Of course Brit commandos would decimate that line last patch as well. Have I been playing this game long enough to yearn for past patches (scared)


So, they made a coordinated attack while the Commandos were landing behind the enemy's lines? This needs a lot of coordination between the players.
11 Apr 2018, 17:40 PM
#9
avatar of Rosbone
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 997 | Subs: 2

So, they made a coordinated attack while the Commandos were landing behind the enemy's lines? This needs a lot of coordination between the players.

1. You get close to the line hit SMOKE RAID (60 munis). Smoke floods the area.
2. Hit ASSAULT to make your units push better (optional but 90 Munis).
3. Throw grenades on the MGs.

This strat works early-mid game since it requires 3 CPs to unlock the smoke raid.

One of the statistics guys can affirm, but the ASSUALT adds a little sprint to get you past the MGs etc. It may have been nerfed this patch to move slower.

Last patch, the inf could sprint right thru the MGs if timed right. No need for smoke at all. It was bat-shit OP. Which brings up the issue I have with commanders. Picking the right commander should not drastically change the game.

But generically it seems the pros say:
BRITS - Smoke, Grenades, Mortar pit.
USF - Mortar Smoke, grenades, mortar half tracks.
SOV - Smoke, 120mm mortar, Con sprint w/ppsh or shocks to get close and deal damage.

SKIP MY RAMBLING
I think the thing that trips everyone up is that things are meant to counter at certain times in this game. Each thing allows you some domination time. Along the order of 1-4 minutes. Where everyone thinks they made X, I need to counter with Y. And if Y does not quickly counter, then the game is busted or imbalanced. You did not anticipate unit X so you lose territory for a certain time period.

That is how I feel about bunkers, bofors, etc. They are not meant to win the game. Just buy you time in the VP race.
11 Apr 2018, 18:01 PM
#10
avatar of LeOverlord

Posts: 306

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Apr 2018, 17:40 PMRosbone

1. You get close to the line hit SMOKE RAID (60 munis). Smoke floods the area.
2. Hit ASSAULT to make your units push better (optional but 90 Munis).
3. Throw grenades on the MGs.

This strat works early-mid game since it requires 3 CPs to unlock the smoke raid.

One of the statistics guys can affirm, but the ASSUALT adds a little sprint to get you past the MGs etc. It may have been nerfed this patch to move slower.

Last patch, the inf could sprint right thru the MGs if timed right. No need for smoke at all. It was bat-shit OP. Which brings up the issue I have with commanders. Picking the right commander should not drastically change the game.

But generically it seems the pros say:
BRITS - Smoke, Grenades, Mortar pit.
USF - Mortar Smoke, grenades, mortar half tracks.
SOV - Smoke, 120mm mortar, Con sprint w/ppsh or shocks to get close and deal damage.

SKIP MY RAMBLING
I think the thing that trips everyone up is that things are meant to counter at certain times in this game. Each thing allows you some domination time. Along the order of 1-4 minutes. Where everyone thinks they made X, I need to counter with Y. And if Y does not quickly counter, then the game is busted or imbalanced. You did not anticipate unit X so you lose territory for a certain time period.

That is how I feel about bunkers, bofors, etc. They are not meant to win the game. Just buy you time in the VP race.


So, heavy use of smokes is a thing here
12 Apr 2018, 13:00 PM
#11
avatar of CadianGuardsman

Posts: 346



So, heavy use of smokes is a thing here


Reminds me of the CoH 2 early USF days where Wehrmacht players would respond to any allegations that the game was unbalanced with "SMOKE AND FLANK" which led to me doing analysis of new game to provide actual advice. (Inb4 the USF had smoke taken away from it's key unit /facepalm)

But it really depends what mode you play. I play 4v4s because 1v1s are a bit dull for me now so I can say smoke is less effective thank teamwork and flanking though it is a key factor.

As mentioned above smoke raids, smoke grenades, mortars and possibly the best of all SHERMAN SMOKE WALL OF DEATH stand out as strong contenders. A good USF player knows that the Sherman mortar is best used offensively as defensively it's inferior to all others. Not to mention you can force attack through it something not a lot of players do unit your in the top ~300. At the very least it will allow infantry to act aggressively.

None the less anything past 1v1 means teamwork trumps everything. It doesn't matter how well you play because if your allies don't keep up and support your attacks it's pretty much GG. It's why the 4v4/3v3 community is so toxic.



13 Apr 2018, 04:07 AM
#12
avatar of LeOverlord

Posts: 306



Reminds me of the CoH 2 early USF days where Wehrmacht players would respond to any allegations that the game was unbalanced with "SMOKE AND FLANK" which led to me doing analysis of new game to provide actual advice. (Inb4 the USF had smoke taken away from it's key unit /facepalm)

But it really depends what mode you play. I play 4v4s because 1v1s are a bit dull for me now so I can say smoke is less effective thank teamwork and flanking though it is a key factor.

As mentioned above smoke raids, smoke grenades, mortars and possibly the best of all SHERMAN SMOKE WALL OF DEATH stand out as strong contenders. A good USF player knows that the Sherman mortar is best used offensively as defensively it's inferior to all others. Not to mention you can force attack through it something not a lot of players do unit your in the top ~300. At the very least it will allow infantry to act aggressively.

None the less anything past 1v1 means teamwork trumps everything. It doesn't matter how well you play because if your allies don't keep up and support your attacks it's pretty much GG. It's why the 4v4/3v3 community is so toxic.







I play 3v3 and 4v4 with friends. Recently i used Infantry Company and the result was pretty good. I just need to adjust my gameplay and stop relying on a static defense. My micro with tanks is terrible, and i can't keep a tank alive long enough. I will try to make heavy use of the smokes from now on and wish for the best
13 Apr 2018, 05:08 AM
#13
avatar of CadianGuardsman

Posts: 346





I play 3v3 and 4v4 with friends. Recently i used Infantry Company and the result was pretty good. I just need to adjust my gameplay and stop relying on a static defense. My micro with tanks is terrible, and i can't keep a tank alive long enough. I will try to make heavy use of the smokes from now on and wish for the best


Well you seem to know to avoid using static defences in team games so you're on the right track. Too much mortar spam for it to be useful sadly :/
13 Apr 2018, 06:52 AM
#14
avatar of Trebgarta

Posts: 1





I play 3v3 and 4v4 with friends. Recently i used Infantry Company and the result was pretty good. I just need to adjust my gameplay and stop relying on a static defense. My micro with tanks is terrible, and i can't keep a tank alive long enough. I will try to make heavy use of the smokes from now on and wish for the best


If you are relying on static defences and are bad with micro, smoke will only get you so far. You need to improve your micro as tanks are crucial, and I recommend playing smaller games so that you can practice micro more. 2v2/1v1s have infinitely more opportunities to practice micro compared to 3v3/4v4s, and the only way to improve is practice.

I have a different experience though, when I play Axis, I never see static defences hold up against artillery if the Allies are determined enough with it and bring tons.
13 Apr 2018, 11:27 AM
#15
avatar of LeOverlord

Posts: 306



Well you seem to know to avoid using static defences in team games so you're on the right track. Too much mortar spam for it to be useful sadly :/


I tried the static defense plan in the first couple games, and when i saw that they constantly bombard us with mortars, i gave up. I only place some AT gun for vehicles. Hopefully we will find something.



13 Apr 2018, 11:31 AM
#16
avatar of LeOverlord

Posts: 306



If you are relying on static defences and are bad with micro, smoke will only get you so far. You need to improve your micro as tanks are crucial, and I recommend playing smaller games so that you can practice micro more. 2v2/1v1s have infinitely more opportunities to practice micro compared to 3v3/4v4s, and the only way to improve is practice.

I have a different experience though, when I play Axis, I never see static defences hold up against artillery if the Allies are determined enough with it and bring tons.


I actually am trying to find a way to get a lead in fuel so that i can call in many artillery units (Priests for example) and also combine Company Commanders with officers (Lieutenant, Captain). For example, when i go Airborne Company, i don't unlock the Lieutenant, because i have ATs/MGs delivered by air.
17 Apr 2018, 15:19 PM
#17
avatar of murky depths

Posts: 604

It should be noted that on some maps, things work much more differently. Red Ball Express comes to mind, and how much of a pain in the ass it is to flank around there.

In some cases, blowing a hole through the trees/hedge-rows is a good idea to flank around enemy front lines.

Also someone mentioned smoke -- the Scott has amazing smoke barrage capabilities now, and relatively low fuel cost. It's nothing close to a brumbar in terms of armor and infantry-annihilation, but yeah.

Also, if you can, try playing as wehrmacht/OKW some to see how others are able to beat you when you try the same strategy.

I play more 3v3/4v4 than I do 1v1 for sure, and tbh at some point it really does just boil down to who cheeses earlier and who cheeses harder. In my experience, after 30 minutes, it's always an artillery hell fest where the screen basically never stops shaking.
17 Apr 2018, 15:36 PM
#18
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 1718 | Subs: 1

you have not a single axis game.

try them before forum posting. saves a lot of time and effort
17 Apr 2018, 16:07 PM
#19
avatar of mondeogaming1

Posts: 460

i have problems too at 2v2 and 3v3 and 4v4 with stupid OST mgs they just spam mgs then long range grenadiers with flame half track to ostwind and then paks and spam stugs i cant break it you know why cuz USF no spamable armor to counter it and RIFLEMEN DONT HAVE SMOKE if i take E8 i cant have smoke on rear echelon forces me to take mortar
17 Apr 2018, 16:31 PM
#20
avatar of mondeogaming1

Posts: 460



Reminds me of the CoH 2 early USF days where Wehrmacht players would respond to any allegations that the game was unbalanced with "SMOKE AND FLANK" which led to me doing analysis of new game to provide actual advice. (Inb4 the USF had smoke taken away from it's key unit /facepalm)

But it really depends what mode you play. I play 4v4s because 1v1s are a bit dull for me now so I can say smoke is less effective thank teamwork and flanking though it is a key factor.

As mentioned above smoke raids, smoke grenades, mortars and possibly the best of all SHERMAN SMOKE WALL OF DEATH stand out as strong contenders. A good USF player knows that the Sherman mortar is best used offensively as defensively it's inferior to all others. Not to mention you can force attack through it something not a lot of players do unit your in the top ~300. At the very least it will allow infantry to act aggressively.

None the less anything past 1v1 means teamwork trumps everything. It doesn't matter how well you play because if your allies don't keep up and support your attacks it's pretty much GG. It's why the 4v4/3v3 community is so toxic. Can i ask how can i counter at 1v1s 2v2s 3v3s and 4v4s the MG spams from OKW and Especially stupid OST i jsut cna do anything as USF they jsut spam mgs then grenadiers long range rekt my riflemen with flame half track to an ostwind then spam paks with stugs what do i need to get armor company for spam m10s what am i soppose to do cuz obviosly i cant use smoek cuz riflemen dont have smoke have to get rearr echelon which if i go rifle company cant use smoke forces me to get mortar



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