The latest patch has changes the requirement for call in tanks and made them build able. The changes was good for main battle tanks but made certain specialized tanks not worth it. Having other requirements could allow for more diversified builds while filling only one role with specialized vehicles.
For instance the feuersturm doctrine make T2 very unattractive since it delays hezter and make incendiary munitions ability rather pointless.
Imo certain vehicles could have the requirement changed+CP:
Soviets
KV-8 this specialized tank could require 2 (and CP) (or 3) buildings allowing the skipping of T4.
USF
M10 could be changed to require 2 officer(and CP) allowing skipping T4
OKW
Hezter and Ostwind could be changed to require 2 trucks(and CP)
Requirement for specialized call-in vehicles.
10 Apr 2018, 16:50 PM
#1
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
10 Apr 2018, 17:01 PM
#2
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
Are you suggesting we make these callins again after these are implemented? I.e. you have med and schwer up for OKW, get to the required CPs, and then call them in?
10 Apr 2018, 17:13 PM
#3
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
Are you suggesting we make these callins again after these are implemented? I.e. you have med and schwer up for OKW, get to the required CPs, and then call them in?
Yes or they could be build-able from HQ when requirement and CP are met.
Currently these 4 vehicles do not offer much in terms of alternative builds.
10 Apr 2018, 17:16 PM
#4
1 
Posts: 2885
It is true that most of theese lost all of their appeal and usage after the change. They either need to be redesigned completely or changed like vipper suggests. If they happen to be too potent again, the CP requirement or cost should be increased. This may not happen though, as these units mostly excelled becouse they could be used with minimal tech.
10 Apr 2018, 17:22 PM
#5
Posts: 17892 | Subs: 8
I do agree that specialist vehicles did not needed that change.
Why was it even implemented?
Someone was winning games with hetzer/kv-8 spam?
Why was it even implemented?
Someone was winning games with hetzer/kv-8 spam?
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
10 Apr 2018, 18:55 PM
#6
Posts: 3260
I could see this working nicely for the two OKW units but I'd hesitate to do it for the M10. Armor Company's entire strategy was teching both Lieutenant and Captain so you had all the tools and then using M10s and the Bulldozer to replace Major. All you'd achieve would be restoring Armor to its former power level.
10 Apr 2018, 23:19 PM
#7
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
I could see this working nicely for the two OKW units but I'd hesitate to do it for the M10. Armor Company's entire strategy was teching both Lieutenant and Captain so you had all the tools and then using M10s and the Bulldozer to replace Major. All you'd achieve would be restoring Armor to its former power level.
That is why I said M10 only and not Dozer. A specialized unit that cover only one field is fine, 2 specialized units that cover both or main battle tank is not.
10 Apr 2018, 23:31 PM
#8
Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2
Ostwinds would be broken if they came that early tbh. Thats insanely early to get a 640 hp vehicle out. Youd see them every single game.
10 Apr 2018, 23:38 PM
#9
Posts: 1044 | Subs: 1
I agree specialized tanks should not be tied to tech. Things like the m10, kv8, hetzer, and OKW ostwind find very little use when compared to more powerful units on the roster that doesn't require a doctrine. IMO the biggest issue with call in meta was medium generalists not specialized vehicles. (minus the m10 meta but that was due to how cheap and how bad the jackson use to be).
bg /l
11 Apr 2018, 00:03 AM
#10
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
Ostwinds would be broken if they came that early tbh. Thats insanely early to get a 640 hp vehicle out. Youd see them every single game.
Could require 2 trucks and CP of 6-8. That would be around the current time it hits the field. Currently the is little reason to get instead of the OKW P4.
11 Apr 2018, 02:22 AM
#11
Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2
Could require 2 trucks and CP of 6-8. That would be around the current time it hits the field. Currently the is little reason to get instead of the OKW P4.
But then you still dont have any additional incentive to get an ostwind anyway once you get your t4 up.
The whole point of tying the ostwind to t4 was to shutdown the okw scavenge callin build. 2 trucks and 6-8 cp is just asking for that back. Everyone will do mech into battlegroup into ostwind spam again, effectively killing all build diversity. As someone who used scavenge both before and after the patch, scavenge is a lot more healthy for the game and interesting to choose in the current patch.
Its cool and all to propose a bunch of changes so you can contribute ideas, but changing things for the sake of changing them is not the way to go.
11 Apr 2018, 07:57 AM
#12
Posts: 3600 | Subs: 1
But then you still dont have any additional incentive to get an ostwind anyway once you get your t4 up.
The whole point of tying the ostwind to t4 was to shutdown the okw scavenge callin build. 2 trucks and 6-8 cp is just asking for that back. Everyone will do mech into battlegroup into ostwind spam again, effectively killing all build diversity. As someone who used scavenge both before and after the patch, scavenge is a lot more healthy for the game and interesting to choose in the current patch.
Its cool and all to propose a bunch of changes so you can contribute ideas, but changing things for the sake of changing them is not the way to go.
I was wondering if the Armor doctrine and M10 could resurrect with the new Axis medium tank meta in 2vs2. If only we could get ride out of the Crew upgrade bullshit and have something useful instead.
11 Apr 2018, 09:41 AM
#13
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
But then you still dont have any additional incentive to get an ostwind anyway once you get your t4 up.
The whole point of tying the ostwind to t4 was to shutdown the okw scavenge callin build. 2 trucks and 6-8 cp is just asking for that back. Everyone will do mech into battlegroup into ostwind spam again, effectively killing all build diversity. As someone who used scavenge both before and after the patch, scavenge is a lot more healthy for the game and interesting to choose in the current patch.
Its cool and all to propose a bunch of changes so you can contribute ideas, but changing things for the sake of changing them is not the way to go.
Ostwinds alone can not stop builds that involve heavy tanks like KV-1, Churchill or even AI tanks like the Centaur...so I am not sure why you think that OKW will only play Scavenger.
Or why you think that Ostwind alone will be a problem and not KV-8 and hezter.
In the case of OKW imo these units be available even if they T4 building is destroyed.
11 Apr 2018, 10:50 AM
#14
Posts: 4474
I do agree that specialist vehicles did not needed that change.for the same reason that they nerfed IS-2 armor even thought it was nver used, genralization and consistency
Why was it even implemented?
Someone was winning games with hetzer/kv-8 spam?
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
11 Apr 2018, 10:57 AM
#15
Posts: 3260
Or why you think that Ostwind alone will be a problem and not KV-8 and hezter.
He said OKW Ostwind spam was a problem. There's a big difference between speculation and precedent.
11 Apr 2018, 11:56 AM
#16
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
He said OKW Ostwind spam was a problem. There's a big difference between speculation and precedent.
And allot have changed since then with OKW becoming weaker than they used to be. What used to be a problem might not be a problem anymore.
If you actually have a point to make pls do so. I am pretty sure Jae for Jett can explain his own point of view adequately.
11 Apr 2018, 12:06 PM
#17
Posts: 3260
The Ostwind received a buff in DBP. An Ostwind build that skips the Schwerer Panzer Headquarters is going to need AT support. OKW's options there are the Puma, the Panzerschreck Sturmpioneer and the Raketenwerfer. All received minor buffs.
11 Apr 2018, 12:12 PM
#18
Posts: 1273
Everyone will do mech into battlegroup into ostwind spam again, effectively killing all build diversity. As someone who used scavenge both before and after the patch, scavenge is a lot more healthy for the game and interesting to choose in the current patch.
I've used that tactic countless times before as well, to the point I was able to park Ostwinds in opponents bases. It was fun for me at the time, it totally killed the game, and build diversity, i even got flamed at the start of a match if i went full ostwind. I would hate having to return to similar builds and tactics - i'd leave things as it is now, I'd rather have changes to the specialised units themselves to make them more attractive than changing their requirements.
11 Apr 2018, 12:37 PM
#19
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
The Ostwind received a buff in DBP. An Ostwind build that skips the Schwerer Panzer Headquarters is going to need AT support. OKW's options there are the Puma, the Panzerschreck Sturmpioneer and the Raketenwerfer. All received minor buffs.
Puma no change in DBP
Rakketen was mostly nerfed
As I have pointed out neither Puma AT, SP or RK can help Ostwind deal with KV-1, Churchills or even Centaur.
11 Apr 2018, 17:06 PM
#20
Posts: 3260
Aimed Shot was tweaked to be more consistent. The Raketenwerfer received suppression immunity and its projectiles no longer collide with terrain.
Given Ostwind spam existed it evidently could deal with Centaurs.
Given Ostwind spam existed it evidently could deal with Centaurs.
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