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An open letter to the CoHmmunity about rebroadcasting

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3 Apr 2018, 20:26 PM
#1
avatar of Stormless
Senior Caster Badge

Posts: 744 | Subs: 5

I feel the need to write this open letter to the community due to some recent events regarding tournaments within our scene.

On Sunday at the opening of the Ultimate Team Tournament hosted by Currahee & FaHu, it was apparent that the official scheduled casting was disrupted by unofficial and unauthorised re-broadcasting on Twitch by one of the game’s top players. This caused one of the official channels to suffer a significant viewership drop and caused upset to the Tournament Organisers (and other TOs) who were upset at the lack of respect shown. Whilst we did still achieve an average of 450 viewers, we care deeply about reaching as many people as possible and this post is more about the etiquette and morals involved.

I want to make it clear to everyone that it is disrespectful to the people who create, manage and run tournaments for you to undercut their event and earn revenue / follows off the back of their hard work. Not only is it a stab in the back to people who actually put hard work into the scene, it is also damaging to a small community struggling to keep a competitive scene active. I will explain some of the damage caused:


  • Tournament Organisers feel cheated and less willing to run events
  • We are denied viewership and statistics that go towards getting sponsors for events
  • We are denied donations and contributions to prize pools on the official channels
  • Casters are left upset that their broadcast has been undermined


This was the excuse that was given on Sunday for casting the event unauthorised:

https://clips.twitch.tv/KindHappyCockroachWoofer

I would like to make it very clear to any streamers out there that we don’t expect you to not stream because of us. What we DO expect is for you not to stream our event and steal from our hard work that we put on for you. Please feel free to stream your automatch games or any other games that are available to you. This would be considered a respectful thing to do and you will also be contributing back to the community members who are creating events for you to watch and play in.

If you would like to cast or broadcast games from the event, we would ask anyone who wants chances to cast or wants to get involved to send us a message just to politely ask for permission first.

Last but not least, I would like to point out that it is against the Official Twitch Rules to rebroadcast another stream by screen capture:




https://clips.twitch.tv/TemperedLazyLettuceBibleThump

Any streamers who participate in this kind of behaviour should be aware that their channels can be reported and removed by Twitch for violations like this.

I am grateful to the many of you who show courtesy and etiquette in the community when it comes to tournaments and events. Credit to people like Maza who asked to host the event in Russian for our Rusky brothers and did a fine job of it. We are grateful to anyone who contributes.

I hope that this helps to clarify any ambiguity about what we as tournament organisers expect from streamers, players and friends.

Stormless

This letter is supported by A_E, Currahee & Sturmpanther
3 Apr 2018, 20:27 PM
#2
avatar of Stormless
Senior Caster Badge

Posts: 744 | Subs: 5

This letter is supported by myself, A_E, Currahee & Sturmpanther
A_E
3 Apr 2018, 20:33 PM
#3
avatar of A_E
Lead Caster Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2028 | Subs: 4

Agree entirely on all of this, I will frankly admit I was only annoyed after I finished streaming to find out that the games Romeo had taken time out of his day to cast, had been cast live by someone else without asking. I thought this was rude, and shouldn't be done, but I've seen it before.

But then later after I saw that earlier in the day my stream had re-streamed and overdubbed... well let's just say my very fragile ego would have meant I would have used very, very, different language to that used in this post.

In this case this isn't my tournament, or even Stormless's tournament, it's Currahee's hard work in principle, someone who's put not only his time and effort into this but also his own money, to create the framework for players to play within. If there's no organisation we all go back to automatch and wait times.

He alone should have the rights to that content, if you want to broadcast it: you ask him politely, he'll most likely say yes, then you thank him afterwards.

If you don't fully agree, all I'll say is try organising your own tournament, realise how much work it is, then get back to me. Casting is the only thing that keeps me going, the actual organising is a displeasure I wouldn't wish upon my worst enemy.
3 Apr 2018, 20:38 PM
#4
avatar of Tric
Master Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1261 | Subs: 3

100% agree with everything. If anyone in this community DOESN'T deserve this. It would undeniably be Currahhee. So much work and effort goes into everything that takes to run even the smallest of tournaments. Don't rob people of all that hard work on that one day.

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Apr 2018, 20:33 PMA_E
...


Also agree here. Especially with the organizing is unbearable bit.
3 Apr 2018, 20:51 PM
#5
avatar of dukejason

Posts: 66

I noticed during the tourney that HelpingHans was running a broadcast during the casting for this tournament. I said to myself and a few community members that this was odd. As someone who has done tournaments and has had unfair events from within the circuit occur,I dont think this is as simple as someone stealing content. I do agree in a perfect world with exactly what stormless is saying. But we all Have to hold our selfs to same standard.

Currahee has committed himself to this community and does not deserve hans streaming on his tournament. Currahee has supported hans since day one. But i do not think hans intended to hurt Currahee,his streaming was an insult toward others.
3 Apr 2018, 21:19 PM
#6
avatar of tightrope
Senior Caster Badge
Patrion 39

Posts: 1155 | Subs: 12

I suppose I am somewhat guilty of this when it comes to GCS1. I have to say my intention when waking up early was to watch it and I only casted when I heard the awful audio quality, which I even waited a while to see if it would be fixed first.

I apologise
3 Apr 2018, 21:22 PM
#7
avatar of d0ggY
Senior Caster Badge

Posts: 683 | Subs: 3

Well, in this Community Egoism is pretty much a big Issue. Maybe we don't see the whole thing. As Community you can't grow, if you split.

That someone casts without asking is not nice and very egoistic. But HOW is this community supposed to grow in that, if Currahee and Fahu have created something, but it doesn't get appreciated, and then this is a hard loss on them.


I once casted Romeo's games for his SCC5 because he couldn't cover all of them, but out of respect i asked first.

But for Example, i Remember a time, where we would host each other to grow as Community. These times has passed also. (Sib, Stormless, Momo, so many hosts went around all day!!!)

At this i have to critisize you aswell Danny (Stormless), after KoTH you haven't hosted one of the Coh2 streamers that were Online, even though the people from your guild don't play coh2. :<

We put Walls between ourselfs most of the times, but if we would all pull on the same string, we could definatly build something bigger as community, for the Game, for the competitive scene and maybe for future things... coh2 community in AoE4? Damn that would be an awesome thing.

A_E
3 Apr 2018, 21:27 PM
#8
avatar of A_E
Lead Caster Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2028 | Subs: 4

I suppose I am somewhat guilty of this when it comes to GCS1. I have to say my intention when waking up early was to watch it and I only casted when I heard the awful audio quality, which I even waited a while to see if it would be fixed first.

I apologise


Hahah not really, the audio was so bad that day, I think you were doing people a favour. And it's not exactly like we were reachable via PM, I think that's called using initiative. However overall in the context of this post, cheers!
3 Apr 2018, 21:30 PM
#9
avatar of Stormless
Senior Caster Badge

Posts: 744 | Subs: 5

I suppose I am somewhat guilty of this when it comes to GCS1. I have to say my intention when waking up early was to watch it and I only casted when I heard the awful audio quality, which I even waited a while to see if it would be fixed first.

I apologise



I appreciate this TightRope. Thank you
3 Apr 2018, 21:34 PM
#10
avatar of Leveltake

Posts: 11

I feel the need to write this open letter to the community due to some recent events regarding tournaments within our scene.

On Sunday at the opening of the Ultimate Team Tournament hosted by Currahee & FaHu, it was apparent that the official scheduled casting was disrupted by unofficial and unauthorised re-broadcasting on Twitch by one of the game’s top players. This caused one of the official channels to suffer a significant viewership drop and caused upset to the Tournament Organisers (and other TOs) who were upset at the lack of respect shown. Whilst we did still achieve an average of 450 viewers, we care deeply about reaching as many people as possible and this post is more about the etiquette and morals involved.

I want to make it clear to everyone that it is disrespectful to the people who create, manage and run tournaments for you to undercut their event and earn revenue / follows off the back of their hard work. Not only is it a stab in the back to people who actually put hard work into the scene, it is also damaging to a small community struggling to keep a competitive scene active. I will explain some of the damage caused:


  • Tournament Organisers feel cheated and less willing to run events
  • We are denied viewership and statistics that go towards getting sponsors for events
  • We are denied donations and contributions to prize pools on the official channels
  • Casters are left upset that their broadcast has been undermined


This was the excuse that was given on Sunday for casting the event unauthorised:

https://clips.twitch.tv/KindHappyCockroachWoofer

I would like to make it very clear to any streamers out there that we don’t expect you to not stream because of us. What we DO expect is for you not to stream our event and steal from our hard work that we put on for you. Please feel free to stream your automatch games or any other games that are available to you. This would be considered a respectful thing to do and you will also be contributing back to the community members who are creating events for you to watch and play in.

If you would like to cast or broadcast games from the event, we would ask anyone who wants chances to cast or wants to get involved to send us a message just to politely ask for permission first.

Last but not least, I would like to point out that it is against the Official Twitch Rules to rebroadcast another stream by screen capture:




https://clips.twitch.tv/TemperedLazyLettuceBibleThump

Any streamers who participate in this kind of behaviour should be aware that their channels can be reported and removed by Twitch for violations like this.

I am grateful to the many of you who show courtesy and etiquette in the community when it comes to tournaments and events. Credit to people like Maza who asked to host the event in Russian for our Rusky brothers and did a fine job of it. We are grateful to anyone who contributes.

I hope that this helps to clarify any ambiguity about what we as tournament organisers expect from streamers, players and friends.

Stormless

This letter is supported by A_E, Currahee & Sturmpanther



Well written.
3 Apr 2018, 21:41 PM
#11
avatar of HelpingHans
Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 1827 | Subs: 17

Nice little witch hunt we have here I see.

First of let me just state I do not want to cause anyone grief for streaming tournament matches. I asked my viewers if they would like me to stream the matches and they said yes because they preferred my game insight. Furthermore I directed people both to A_E's channel and Romeo's channel as the 'official casters' for the match prior to streaming the matches myself. I wanted to give CoH2 viewers a choice. I even asked Tenshi (a professional caster) on his opinion on all this and he said the more people watching on different channels is actually better for the tournament on a whole. So what your saying about damaging the community is complete bull shit.

Secondly the only reason I did I rebroadcast of A_E's channel was because it saved me time jumping into the replay manually and speeding through the game. I admit this was wrong and I will not do it again. Next time I'll just use the spectate mode, at-least that way viewers won't miss important moments of a match.

I am pretty sure that for any other game like SC2 if a tourney match was available to watch and cast having been available in the game's own spectate mode I am sure plenty of people would jump at the opportunity. I am absolutely sick and tired of having to step aside and be the good guy for other people because you're worried about me stealing viewership. Now listen and listen good all of you, if you're content is good people will watch it. End of story. So if I am having more viewers then you there's a bloody good reason for it.

At the end of the day this is my job and I have to make a living out of it, you can't spite me for trying to cast tournament matches.


3 Apr 2018, 21:42 PM
#12
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 765 | Subs: 1

I suppose I am somewhat guilty of this when it comes to GCS1. I have to say my intention when waking up early was to watch it and I only casted when I heard the awful audio quality, which I even waited a while to see if it would be fixed first.

I apologise

To reiterate why I think people are so understanding of your case:
The organizers couldnt be immediately contacted.
No one asked you to stop or said that they wanted you to stop (if i recall correctly), it was never raised as an issue.
At least the intent behind casting the matches seemed like it was to improve the experience for the viewers in a situation where, honestly, things had gone wrong.
3 Apr 2018, 21:42 PM
#13
avatar of empirescurropt

Posts: 523

just a bit to late i understand all of the concerns and the hard work on all events casters and organization that involves it's not fair really not fair !


its sad to now that streamers do this kind of stuff or just broadcast wen important events happens, should be focus on 1 channel only to keep the support for the event rolling .

this cummonity been great and coh.org !
its sad that this happens but it hapenns and its not the first time im glad to see some "action" on this important view !


supporting the main chanel it the Event its very important because its the only way to make this kind of events possible !


i remember on the coh.org asking for caters a few times and just so little respond to it respect partnership and hard work its involve and no one cares or not interesting just the same group of people making a effort to keep coh2 a "live" and supporting it any meens possible so they do hard work for no money income streaming doing videos and turney !

more i see people just broadcasting for "making a living " its a bit sad i work my ass offf and i only did support 1 event it some hard working cash did " you guys" streamers did supponser any event ?


Glad to see some "action" it terms of this kind of situations!
3 Apr 2018, 21:48 PM
#14
avatar of Stormless
Senior Caster Badge

Posts: 744 | Subs: 5

I asked my viewers if they would like me to stream the matches and they said yes because they preferred my game insight.


Firstly, get over yourself.

Secondly, it was not YOUR place to ask your viewers if you should cast the games. It was not your event. It's not your stream or your content. Why you think you had the right to ask your viewers this is beyond me. Even if you did want to, you should have the manners to ask.


I even asked Tenshi (a professional caster) on his opinion on all this and he said the more people watching on different channels is actually better for the tournament on a whole. So what your saying about damaging the community is complete bull shit.


I really couldn't care less if Tenshi has validated your lack of ethics.

There were multiple streams organised by Currahee and the OFFICAL EVENT ORGANISERS already. There was no requirement for you assist those streams or to try and divert viewership.

I think you take your own quote - "If your content is good enough, people will watch you". Maybe you should make your own content rather than leeching off of the tournament.

I think if you ask Tenshi about SC2 you will know that SC2 etiquette is that you do not rebroadcast content without permission. You would be shut down so hard for it.

3 Apr 2018, 21:49 PM
#15
avatar of c0mpl3x1ty

Posts: 398 | Subs: 1

Damn, they didn't even take the time to just obs the games themselves? Had to overdub the stream? That's both lazy and creatively bankrupt.

LMAO it was hans? Like dude, couldn't you just obs the games yourself? Aren't all replays public? Dick move just restreaming a stream. You could've had some class.
3 Apr 2018, 21:49 PM
#16
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 765 | Subs: 1

Nice little witch hunt we have here I see.

First of let me just state I do not want to cause anyone grief for streaming tournament matches. I asked my viewers if they would like me to stream the matches and they said yes because they preferred my game insight. Furthermore I directed people both to A_E's channel and Romeo's channel as the 'official casters' for the match prior to streaming the matches myself. I wanted to give CoH2 viewers a choice. I even asked Tenshi (a professional caster) on his opinion on all this and he said the more people watching on different channels is actually better for the tournament on a whole. So what your saying about damaging the community is complete bull shit.

Secondly the only reason I did I rebroadcast of A_E's channel was because it saved me time jumping into the replay manually and speeding through the game. I admit this was wrong and I will not do it again. Next time I'll just use the spectate mode, at-least that way viewers won't miss important moments of a match.

I am pretty sure that for any other game like SC2 if a tourney match was available to watch and cast having been available in the game's own spectate mode I am sure plenty of people would jump at the opportunity. I am absolutely sick and tired of having to step aside and be the good guy for other people because you're worried about me stealing viewership. Now listen and listen good all of you, if you're content is good people will watch it. End of story. So if I am having more viewers then you there's a bloody good reason for it.

At the end of the day this is my job and I have to make a living out of it, you can't spite me for trying to cast tournament matches.



The largest issue isnt even viewership. This situation isnt even necessarily about "whats good for the game."
Its a much more basic issue honestly. The issue is not getting permission for something. The issue is using other peoples work for personal profit.
3 Apr 2018, 21:50 PM
#17
avatar of vasa1719

Posts: 2631 | Subs: 4

Banned
I can be wrong, but isnt its called capitalism ?
So many words, but just need 1 answer, did somebody from tounrey stuff (Fahu,Currahee, AE, Stormless, maybe somebody else) give HelpingHans right to cast ?
3 Apr 2018, 21:51 PM
#18
avatar of Stormless
Senior Caster Badge

Posts: 744 | Subs: 5

I can be wrong, but isnt its called capitalism ?
So many words, but just need 1 answer, did somebody from tounrey stuff (Fahu,Currahee, AE, Stormless, maybe somebody else) give HelpingHans right to cast ?


No, we didn't. HelpingHans didn't even ask
3 Apr 2018, 21:54 PM
#19
avatar of c0mpl3x1ty

Posts: 398 | Subs: 1

I can be wrong, but isnt its called capitalism ?
So many words, but just need 1 answer, did somebody from tounrey stuff (Fahu,Currahee, AE, Stormless, maybe somebody else) give HelpingHans right to cast ?
See, it'd be called capitalism if he didn't totally copy and restream. It'd be capitalism if he casted the games himself with his own view of the games, but nah. This is just plain ol' theft.
3 Apr 2018, 21:57 PM
#20
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2711 | Subs: 1

Interesting. The portion I watched of UTT was Hans casting a game while A_E was talking out of game with sid.

They were streaming different matches at the time I was watching.

Then I caught wind that people were complaining over streaming rights, rolled my eyes and started playing a different game.
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