Stormless: you have been sanctimonious with us in the past...what we should have said to Relic...what we failed to do with Relic ....why you are unhappy with our attitude to Relic... all this we have taken on the chin.
Yes, actually I had relayed to CoH2.org what Relic's opinion was and what CoH2.org could do in order to restore the relationship that was not present at the time. I'm sorry if I came across to you as righteous or 'sanctimonious' but I thought it was information that CoH2.org could take and process however you wanted to build ties with Relic again. I have my own opinions on it and yes, I do take side with Relic about what happened regarding OCF2
Do you think I have harmed CoH2.org and the community by taking the ESL chance and doing this?
However, as a peacemaker, you sure are not behaving nicely to Hans, whom I last saw playing beer pong in your house, when you were dressed up as a pirate and he was missing the target cups consistently, as he always will do.
If you all know each other in RL, as you do, surely you could resolve this by a Skype call, without resorting to the mob with pitchforks and torches?
I think I've mentioned a few times in this thread already that we all PM'd Hans via Facebook and Steam during and after the event on Sunday. There wasn't a response and so we have opened up this discussion based on this. Yes, James is someone who has been an IRL friend to me, Currahee and Matt for 3-4 years at least.
I hope you can understand that this isn't 'fun' for us. But I don't wish to see anyone trampled on like this, friend or not. Just because Hans is a friend of mine it doesn't mean he gets a free pass to act like this. Same goes for anyone.
So say some one else wanted to organize a coh2 tourney how does that work do they have to run it by you guys or can anyone from the community just come in and decide to organize a tourney?
It's a group where we discuss our own tournaments and talk about players and other rulings. It's not like we are dictating who can do things or controlling anything in the tournament scene. We share/store evidence and details of trolling, rule-breaking and other things that may go towards setting up rules or restrictions for people to play in tournaments.
Anyone can run a tournament. That's got nothing to do with us. We are just a group of friends who manage our own tournaments and events together. It's not exclusive
Don't be disingenuous, please. You rode in on the back of the success of OCF. If you had stayed loyal to the community, which you did not, then ESL would have run on our terms.
I didn't have anything to do with OCF. I actually contributed by making some videos for your YouTube channel and didn't cast any games.
Yes, I took an opportunity to cast ESL when it was offered to me. I didn't realise anyone from CoH2.org disliked me for that.
Once you start to proselytize, as Ciez used to do, it's time to call a halt - or face your own demons.
I think this thread has run its course?
I'm actually surprised as a red badge that you're going to derail this thread and then think for a moment I should close it at your request.
I have nothing to hide from anyone in this community. We can do this in public in the open right now as you've decided that is best.
Explain this in the context of OCF, please? Or is it time to end this thread?
I don't understand what you mean? I didn't have anything to do with OCF other than make videos for CoH2.orgs YouTube 'The Weekly Review'. I did no casting of any matches
Because the obvious answer is have a ruling body as part of COH2.Org that makes the tournament, rules, allowable times, who is banned from play, etc. So each tourney could have a seal of approval that it is legit. Thus removing any grey areas. But it may divide the community further because most of the people making the rulings would be people against Hans, etc.
So I nominate Sturmpanther as Lord and Dictator of all COH2. Heil Sturmpanther!
Just so that you know. Myself, Sturmpanther, Currahee, AE, and Hooligan have an actual committee agreement to discuss players and tournament rulings etc together. Even if it's not our event personally, we still confer with each other and make group decisions which apply to all tournaments.
So this already privately exists and it is us who have decided to make this public discussion.
How about just stop letting this helpinghans guy play in tounaments you organize if he is just undermining them? Or do you need him more than he needs you?
Because this post isn't meant to be about bashing Hans. He's made the mistake which has sparked this discussion, but this isn't a forum to discuss how we are going to deal with it.
The idea is for people to speak out so that the community can see what the general consensus is on acceptable behaviour regarding restreaming and unauthorized broadcasts (no permission from the organisers)
Is the ad revenue large enough to be a significant factor?
Ad revenue is fairly small to be honest.
I am more focused on arguing the principles that you shouldn't try to make money off the back of others hard work. It's a message to anyone who is reading this that we're asking you to be considerate and that your contribution to the scene can be as little as allowing people to reap rewards from their work whether it's viewership, exclusive live casting, follows donations or ad revenue etc.
Just because it is Hans' full-time job to make money from Company of Heroes, it is not an excuse to use his status to overrun people's events and claim that he's contributing. Just because Hans is a long time member of this community he does not have the right to take a s*** on people who put hard work into providing tournament opportunities and watchable content for this community.
This wasn't my event and I'm not running the 2v2 cup. But if anyone thinks I will let someone take a dump on our community and members like this, friend or otherwise, they are mistaken.
The fault does not lie solely with HelpingHans.
All that said, I also believe Stormless and the other organisers/casters had a way to attempt a more peaceable resolution to this than posting it on the CoH2 forums. The post may have been more justified if they attempted a personal conversation with HelpingHans first. I don't know whether this happened... It would reassure me if it did. If Hans still refused to admit the error with integrity then I believe this post is entirely justified.
Thanks for your post. I'm genuinely sorry that this has caused any diminished love for a streamer and tbh, that actually sucks to read. With the best of luck, this is just a bad reaction to something I have no doubt is embarrassing, and to be honest with you this isn't fun for me to have to do this to someone I've considered an IRL friend for 3-4 years.
Myself and the other organisers in our committee (I'm not actually running this event) messaged Hans over Facebook and Steam during the stream. It was receiving this message to stop casting that provoked Hans to speak publicly on his stream about us in what I consider a disrespectful way (i.e claiming our content is rubbish compared to his).
I sent a short and quite sharp message to him afterwards too on Sunday which I haven't heard back from. I did call him something rude because he's a friend of mine and I was annoyed. But I was still hoping he would come back to me to argue a point.
The community opinion doesn't make much of a difference because the community can't really do much about it. Even if this thread were a chorus of agreement (and it mostly is) the only people with the ability to do anything about it here are the tournament organizers and the people who want to stream tournament matches.
I think the community is important because reading this discussion and understand how people feel about this gives the community more of an idea of how this kind of thing affects Tournament Organisers.
There may be people who were not involved in this directly but may consider streaming this way in the future and hopefully, this would deter that kind of thing.
It's also a matter of consensus because we are not able to convey as a minority that such behaviour is controversial and frowned upon. As a community with enough voices, we can speak out and build a general understand of behaviour that results in the happiness of everyone rather than a few people.
At this stage you're just beating a dead horse. James fucked up, and doubling down on his position is a really bad PR-move but he owned up and apologized for the direct re-streaming.
I fail to see the use of this over just PMing James again, talking to him after the actual stream had concluded and be like "Hey man, that's a dick move, can you not?".
Having an actual conversation with James would have been so much more constructive, as I'm sure you know this Dan, considering the fact that both you and I have had different opinions about topic X that we've voiced to James and he's been willing to listen.
But I did actually message James during the event. We all did this as friends in private. He read those messages and decided to make a public statement about how fed up he was and how our content wasn't good enough to compete with his.
I also messaged him after the event with the clip I have linked in my post. Granted I did make a short sharp comment about my thoughts on it which may not have been constructive. But those private messages have been read and then completely ignored since Sunday.
I'm only stating this because I don't want people to think that I have just decided to publicly shame someone I considered a friend to me for no reason. I'm very comfortable in the way that we have handled this and I think that if James had either stopped streaming when asked by his friends or just made an apology after realising how upset it's made us then there would be no need to discuss this.
But if this behaviour is genuinely accepted and validated (By any community of any size or value) then I think that's worth a discussion and in the future we'll make sure we protect ourselves from this happening for our own personal happiness rather than relying on the decency of others.