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About Jacksons

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10 Mar 2018, 09:32 AM
#221
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Mar 2018, 09:04 AMKatitof

...
Scenario you're presenting here is literally TDs exclusively vs TDs exclusively and we're talking about allied TDs, which contrary to certain axis ones have ZERO AI.
...

The scenario came from you not me.

If you actually want to take part in the debate we are having try to stay on topic and pls share you opinion with the rest of us.

Is the m36 as proposed by firesparks better balanced than the current one?
10 Mar 2018, 17:21 PM
#223
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742


increase the sherman health to 800 and it can be a decent dive tank.


Through the last few patches, even proposing to test a 720 health sherman in any capacity caused people's heads to start spinning. Putting a health bonus with vet 2 and/or 3 to get the Sherman up to 720 or even 800 health was deemed to be catastrophic to 1v1 balance and therefore not even worth testing or considering.

Though there is the doctrinal upgrade now for health. Although to be honest, commanders are where balance solutions go to die. It's in the game so you can't complain.


I always figured the call-in Shermans were good at 720 health, but the stock sherman should get that health at some point. I have found it strange in CoH2 that so few vehicles get any durability increases with vet, especially for USF.
11 Mar 2018, 00:29 AM
#224
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930



Through the last few patches, even proposing to test a 720 health sherman in any capacity caused people's heads to start spinning. Putting a health bonus with vet 2 and/or 3 to get the Sherman up to 720 or even 800 health was deemed to be catastrophic to 1v1 balance and therefore not even worth testing or considering.



I always figured the call-in Shermans were good at 720 health, but the stock sherman should get that health at some point. I have found it strange in CoH2 that so few vehicles get any durability increases with vet, especially for USF.


USF needs a late game meat shield. the rather disastrous attempt with terminator rifle and now the Jackson were done because they lack any.

At this point the sherman is the last one we haven't tried, although it's not quite as simple as just giving them 160 more HP.

and 1v1 strength is just a matter of how strong the faction is early game, and team game being 2v2+.

and nearly every other faction get 800 hp on their adv medium. the t34-85, the comet, and the panther all get 800 hp. The ez8 and the bulldozer should have gotten 800 hp as well.

As for the 75mm sherman, the 800 is a good even number in regarding to shot to kill. I don't see why they should deviate.
11 Mar 2018, 00:42 AM
#225
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1220

Jackson op, thread closed
Ulumulu and others are u happy now ?
11 Mar 2018, 05:21 AM
#226
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Mar 2018, 08:43 AMVipper

My response was directed to an irrelevant suggestion, I never claimed that M36 can be used to push.

PLS stop bringing up the Puma. Puma has very little relevance to the m36 you propose.



jump backJump back to quoted post9 Mar 2018, 10:13 AMVipper

Since USF can crew repair and OKW need SP for everything you can not win by out-repairing your opponent.

In addition JP4 do not push they are TDs not tanks.



Jp4 can't push because it lack mobility and vulnerable to flank if overexposed.

Jackson can't push because it lack toughness and is vulnerable at close range.

hence the two unit managed to achieve similar tactical weakness for different reason. Their strength lie in defense/long range duel for different reason as well.

This preserve balance as well as enhancing unit variety.

And I'm still using the term "puma" is because they are the most famous and successful use of agility, sight, range speed, dodging, and smoke to survive. I suppose we could use DRASSS.

11 Mar 2018, 09:45 AM
#227
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1


Jp4 can't push because it lack mobility and vulnerable to flank if overexposed.

Jackson can't push because it lack toughness and is vulnerable at close range.

hence the two unit managed to achieve similar tactical weakness for different reason. Their strength lie in defense/long range duel for different reason as well.

This preserve balance as well as enhancing unit variety.

And I'm still using the term "puma" is because they are the most famous and successful use of agility, sight, range speed, dodging, and smoke to survive. I suppose we could use DRASSS.


You misunderstood the use of "push". TDs are there to counter tank and can not spearhead attacks like tanks do.
11 Mar 2018, 10:12 AM
#228
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Mar 2018, 09:45 AMVipper

You misunderstood the use of "push". TDs are there to counter tank and can spearhead attacks like tanks do.


jump backJump back to quoted post9 Mar 2018, 10:13 AMVipper

In addition JP4 do not push they are TDs not tanks.


Make your god damn mind mr.argue semantics.
11 Mar 2018, 18:11 PM
#229
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

It appears there have been edits.

This is a forum, not a chatroom or the shoutbox. Proofreading is possible before posting.
11 Mar 2018, 23:48 PM
#230
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Mar 2018, 09:45 AMVipper

You misunderstood the use of "push". TDs are there to counter tank and can not spearhead attacks like tanks do.


and the jp4 is a tank destroyer. 60m range AFV whose gun is only effective against tank and lack of mobility make them ill suited for spearheading attacks.

If the OKW need a spearhead tank they have the pz4, the panther, and the king tiger, with jp4 inn support.

Likewise, once the Jackson got the puma survival kit and the sherman get more hp, the sherman will act as spearhead with jackson in support
12 Mar 2018, 13:16 PM
#238
avatar of Leo251

Posts: 311

Back to topic plz.
IMO, M36 Jacksons get a double buff in the last patch:
From one hand they get their HP boosted.
But they also get the "indirect buff" of the Panther nerfs, and the Heavy Axis TD damage reduced (elephant and JT).
Thats the reason why we now watch jacksons rounding around the map with almost any proper counter.
12 Mar 2018, 13:22 PM
#239
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Mar 2018, 13:16 PMLeo251
Back to topic plz.
IMO, M36 Jacksons get a double buff in the last patch:
From one hand they get their HP boosted.
But they also get the "indirect buff" of the Panther nerfs, and the Heavy Axis TD damage reduced (elephant and JT).
Thats the reason why we now watch jacksons rounding around the map with almost any proper counter.

If only there existed a way to kill armored vehicles that would not be a vehicle itself in CoH2....
12 Mar 2018, 13:46 PM
#240
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Mar 2018, 12:24 PMKatitof

That awkward Moment, when ullumulu understands something, but Vipper still won't.
panzer greens are not at units they still have stg, nade and lack any sort of slow/snare to tanks.
do u get the point ?
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