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Fall Balance Patch Community Feedback [POLL]

How would you rate USF balance changes?
Option Distribution Votes
8%
50%
19%
14%
8%
How would you rate OKW balance changes?
Option Distribution Votes
11%
43%
23%
9%
14%
How would you rate Ostheer balance changes?
Option Distribution Votes
6%
40%
26%
20%
9%
How would you rate UKF balance changes?
Option Distribution Votes
6%
50%
26%
6%
12%
How would you rate Soviets balance changes?
Option Distribution Votes
6%
33%
31%
8%
22%
Would you rather prefer if Relic released smaller patches more often?
Option Distribution Votes
25%
75%
Which balancing issues should be addressed first in your opinion?
Option Distribution Votes
25%
17%
11%
28%
0%
6%
0%
14%
Would you consider it to be better if?
Option Distribution Votes
29%
71%
How much do you love Relic for their hard work supporting COH2 franchise?
Option Distribution Votes
17%
49%
6%
0%
29%
Total votes: 317
Vote VOTE! Vote ABSTAIN
23 Jul 2017, 02:17 AM
#1
avatar of karolllus

Posts: 172

This is a feedback topic for Fall Balance Patch. I hope it provides Relic with some relatively useful feedback.
23 Jul 2017, 09:38 AM
#2
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 5378 | Subs: 28

Pls consider that this is a Prepatch. Means until it goes live we will change it. But we make this all for free and in our free time. So we need fackback from people WHO PLAY THE MOD!

And then we will rework it.
23 Jul 2017, 11:36 AM
#3
avatar of karolllus

Posts: 172

Pls consider that this is a Prepatch. Means until it goes live we will change it. But we make this all for free and in our free time. So we need fackback from people WHO PLAY THE MOD!

And then we will rework it.


This is just feedback, community way of saying "thank you".
23 Jul 2017, 14:12 PM
#4
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

Pls consider that this is a Prepatch. Means until it goes live we will change it. But we make this all for free and in our free time. So we need fackback from people WHO PLAY THE MOD!

And then we will rework it.


Considering people not playing the mod are going to be just as affected by the results of the mod... It might be worth taking into account people not playing the mod as a good starting point for what actually needs to be changed.

This will affect the live game. People's interpretations of the live game are extremely relevant and important here.
23 Jul 2017, 21:21 PM
#7
avatar of A. Soldier

Posts: 3090 | Subs: 2

Until this is in: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=679152285&searchtext=Artillery+Pit

The British will never be complete or balanced for me.

Especially now that you're paying a price near that of a normal mobile mortar for something that's big and static and has the same range of a normal mobile mortar.

OKW still needs their MG34 to be T0 and resource caches, I am sick and tired of having 4 man OKW teams or being forced to rely on my noobish Wehrmacht teammates just because of their MG support and resource caches.

And to people arguing that the OKW can't have everything in T0, they don't and I don't care if you remove the raketenbugggedwerfer or the kubelwagen from the HQ building, just give me my shitty T0 MG34 already. As far as resource caches goes, there is no reason why not to not add this since their unique resource system is gone, OKW is the only Army in the game not to be able to build resource caches.
23 Jul 2017, 21:58 PM
#8
avatar of Jubey

Posts: 22

Played some game with soviet, they are now unplayable and conscript still suck.

And giving constructive feedback to relic is a lost cause, they only listen to OKW and Brit player who is crying because of their cancer feature that they are used to us are getting a minor nerf.
25 Jul 2017, 17:44 PM
#9
avatar of dOPEnEWhAIRCUT

Posts: 239



Considering people not playing the mod are going to be just as affected by the results of the mod... It might be worth taking into account people not playing the mod as a good starting point for what actually needs to be changed.

This will affect the live game. People's interpretations of the live game are extremely relevant and important here.


Thanks for fighting the good fight. It's amazing how so matter-of-factly some of these modmakers are being despite some of them having very little time in the live version of the game and/or little experience playing one or more of the available game modes. This, coupled with the fact that, for whatever reason, the changes within their mod are being used as starting points for future Relic patches is quite a cause for concern. It gives the impression that whatever their opinions are will be taken as fact by Relic and should be taken as fact by the community as well. I see way too much theory crafting by one of the more vocal members of the mod team and it makes me seriously doubt his perceived expertise on how to "balance".

25 Jul 2017, 18:35 PM
#10
avatar of mondeogaming1

Posts: 464

Until this is in: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=679152285&searchtext=Artillery+Pit

The British will never be complete or balanced for me.

Especially now that you're paying a price near that of a normal mobile mortar for something that's big and static and has the same range of a normal mobile mortar.

OKW still needs their MG34 to be T0 and resource caches, I am sick and tired of having 4 man OKW teams or being forced to rely on my noobish Wehrmacht teammates just because of their MG support and resource caches.

And to people arguing that the OKW can't have everything in T0, they don't and I don't care if you remove the raketenbugggedwerfer or the kubelwagen from the HQ building, just give me my shitty T0 MG34 already. As far as resource caches goes, there is no reason why not to not add this since their unique resource system is gone, OKW is the only Army in the game not to be able to build resource caches.
OH ok if you want to add all those things lets just add for USF the sherman 76 mm gun and sandbags in the fornt and side armor for protection and riflemen can build sandbags and mines withouth a commander and perhing will be on battalion dude get over it OKW weakness is the priceses
25 Jul 2017, 19:45 PM
#11
avatar of ClassyDavid

Posts: 424 | Subs: 2



Considering people not playing the mod are going to be just as affected by the results of the mod... It might be worth taking into account people not playing the mod as a good starting point for what actually needs to be changed.

This will affect the live game. People's interpretations of the live game are extremely relevant and important here.


Then what basis there should? There's a plethora of issues that effect this game and those who play live see the fall preview patch when they start up the game have every opportunity to comment on how they perceive balance and changes. This preview mod has many changes that have been asked for a long time namely call ins with their cost and no tech tie in and attempt to better balance certain units. This is the same as the winter patch that people had every chance to give their opinion on and was step in the right direction. Granted there are some who theory craft or comment on this mod yet play little of the live game. Not saying the patch is perfect but that's the whole point of this mod is to see how it effects the game from live and if it's better for it.
25 Jul 2017, 20:42 PM
#12
avatar of A. Soldier

Posts: 3090 | Subs: 2

OH ok if you want to add all those things lets just add for USF the sherman 76 mm gun and sandbags in the fornt and side armor for protection and riflemen can build sandbags and mines withouth a commander and perhing will be on battalion dude get over it OKW weakness is the priceses


I'm all for that actually, I just never mention it because I don't play USF all that much.

I'd make the USF exactly like they were in CoH, maybe with a few changes like for example instead of the M1917 Browning they'd get the M1919A4 .30 Browning HMG.

And instead of having a separate sniper they'd have one in a squad as an ability like the British recon sections because historically it was the other way around, the British had snipers while the US Army had marksmen in their squads but no individual snipers.

I'd also give the Wehrmacht repair bunker upgrades, Dragon's Teeth tank traps, an upgrade for the Soviet T-34/76s to 85s similar to the 76mm Shermans you already mentioned.

I'd also change the British trenches to the model of their CoH counterparts and for them to be neutral and not already owned by the British player.

And I've already done most of this besides a few things in my past mods.
25 Jul 2017, 22:02 PM
#13
avatar of mondeogaming1

Posts: 464



I'm all for that actually, I just never mention it because I don't play USF all that much.

I'd make the USF exactly like they were in CoH, maybe with a few changes like for example instead of the M1917 Browning they'd get the M1919A4 .30 Browning HMG.

And instead of having a separate sniper they'd have one in a squad as an ability like the British recon sections because historically it was the other way around, the British had snipers while the US Army had marksmen in their squads but no individual snipers.

I'd also give the Wehrmacht repair bunker upgrades, Dragon's Teeth tank traps, an upgrade for the Soviet T-34/76s to 85s similar to the 76mm Shermans you already mentioned.

I'd also change the British trenches to the model of their CoH counterparts and for them to be neutral and not already owned by the British player.

And I've already done most of this besides a few things in my past mods.
first of all i hate british second of alli would love to see those chagnes i just hate the fact that the p4 is better than the sherman cuz now that jackson has 600 helath USF has better medium tanks that the WEH and one last question what do you like more with the new patch M10 or Jackson
26 Jul 2017, 00:49 AM
#14
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742



Then what basis there should? There's a plethora of issues that effect this game and those who play live see the fall preview patch when they start up the game have every opportunity to comment on how they perceive balance and changes. This preview mod has many changes that have been asked for a long time namely call ins with their cost and no tech tie in and attempt to better balance certain units. This is the same as the winter patch that people had every chance to give their opinion on and was step in the right direction. Granted there are some who theory craft or comment on this mod yet play little of the live game. Not saying the patch is perfect but that's the whole point of this mod is to see how it effects the game from live and if it's better for it.


Hey, don't get me wrong. I will never disparage a single bug fix or any of the quality of life changes that have been made. Anyone that disagrees with that can just gtfo already.

That said...

What I mean is that there are endless changes that can be made to see how it affects the game. And some of those most certainly will be in the right direction. But I don't think there's a clear idea of what the 'right direction' actually is.

That's what I'm getting at. It would be useful to be testing possible solutions than confirming a set of changes.

26 Jul 2017, 09:05 AM
#15
avatar of KyleAkira

Posts: 410

After playing a few competitive 2v2 games here are my thoughts:
Overall, its in a good direction. (USF NOT TESTED) I would like to see mines suppressing infantry (yellow suppresion)

Arty:
With some arty nerfed, others come back. Right now the 120mm soviet mortar is the best arty. It may need autofire range reduction while keep manual fire its range.
Leig: Not anymore a hard counter to mortar pit. But it's rate of fire and autoface makes it really strong vs movile infantry. A suggestion would be to increase its arc of fire but disable autofacing.
Mortar Pit: Seems better now, it should be microed to deal long range damage. I would only reduce its armor to small guns so you can damage it with regular infantry in case of a frontal push.
Stuka: Nerfed but its still efective.
Pwerfer: I don't feel it like a real counter to 120's mortars. It took me many shots to decrew it, it should give yellow suppresion (to at least, reduce the rate of fire of my targets) Werfer vet is fine.
Kats: Seems the best onmap arty right now, it can still wipe some infantry but its not as strong as calliope was. Maybe less rockets in the first barrage to be able to react?
Land mattress: Its a bit OP, but at least is counterable with Stuka.
ML-20: It seems it could be new meta, affordable now. its counters got nerfed.

Infantry:
Good changes on penals, they are strong but now a Panzer II or 222 can get close to move them out of cover.
Haven't tested maxims.

Tanks:
Elephant changes are fine, Its not a killing machine, but it can hold the line. unsupported Elephant can be killed easy by a frontal attack.
Firefly: good AT tank, tulips nerfed to the right place.

Abilities:
Stuka Dive bomb is harder to reach, I think its in a good place, it was spammable before the patch.
Soviet Loiter: After the AA changes, that ability is really strong, we may need to find counters to it but without AA in the field, that ability is a bit OP.
Sexton commander flare/arty: I don't remember the exact name of that ability (it kills inf and blinds vehicles) but I think it should not be able to hit without line of sight.
26 Jul 2017, 10:37 AM
#16
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 18

After playing a few competitive 2v2 games here are my thoughts:
Overall, its in a good direction. (USF NOT TESTED) I would like to see mines suppressing infantry (yellow suppresion)


Can you tell us which kind of mine you used that didn't suppress infantry, so we can fix it? :O


Leig: Not anymore a hard counter to mortar pit. But it's rate of fire and autoface makes it really strong vs movile infantry. A suggestion would be to increase its arc of fire but disable autofacing.


We discovered a bug with LeIG in that the autoattack range is 80, instead of the intended 70.


Mortar Pit: Seems better now, it should be microed to deal long range damage. I would only reduce its armor to small guns so you can damage it with regular infantry in case of a frontal push.


We would love to do this; however down the line we would have to also touch target size and brace, and brace nerfs have been veto'd by Relic.


Pwerfer: I don't feel it like a real counter to 120's mortars. It took me many shots to decrew it, it should give yellow suppresion (to at least, reduce the rate of fire of my targets) Werfer vet is fine.


Suppression of any kind tends to break MGs permanently due to bugs; if possible we would like to avoid reintroducing this. The biggest buff we can envision for the PWerfer is making T3 & T4 cheaper, but that's not doable due to scope. We can try to think of something alternative though.

Suppression is also meaningless in an 1v1 setting. Therefore, if the pwerfer needs a buff after this, we'll try to figure something else instead. If you get something; you shouldn't get it for free, and if you're paying to get an artillery piece and you don't care about suppression, you shouldn't be forced to pay extra for that.

To get the best results you absolutely need line of sight on the target, and try to move as close as possible.


Kats: Seems the best onmap arty right now, it can still wipe some infantry but its not as strong as calliope was. Maybe less rockets in the first barrage to be able to react?


Katyusha has been OK for a while though. Perhaps we overnerfed other artillery?


Land mattress: Its a bit OP, but at least is counterable with Stuka.


Technically land mattress should also be kill-able by a raketenwerfer.


Soviet Loiter: After the AA changes, that ability is really strong, we may need to find counters to it but without AA in the field, that ability is a bit OP.


Note that the ability has been configured suboptimally. If you target it against a singular squad, the squad will get focused down and die pretty easily. If you don't have AA, try to blob (seriously!) so that damage is more evenly distributed.


Sexton commander flare/arty: I don't remember the exact name of that ability (it kills inf and blinds vehicles) but I think it should not be able to hit without line of sight.


You are right. However offmaps have been deemed out of scope and we had to really convince relic to at least let us fix Stuka Dive Bomb.
26 Jul 2017, 11:31 AM
#17
avatar of KyleAkira

Posts: 410



Hello Mr.Smith, in that case I was the attacker (werh) pushing into a soviet mined area. The soviet spammed a lot of anti-inf mines (from the commander with Diuska,120 mortar,I think its the deffensive one) combined with regular mines.

None of the AI mines made me get into suppresion, and I remember I hit regular mines aswell. I'll check the replay to better confirm.

About AI mines it may be a good buff to that commander (underused) to increase ammo x mine but let a small suppresion.

I have a question I didn't check. Does AI minefield from werh suppress?

As I told you before, those are my thoughts. We are a group of veteran Coh2 players (that participated in some 2v2 tourneys) and we wan't to test and give feedback on the FBP. We switch teams to play either Axis or Allies.But sometimes it's hard to meet 4 of us at the same time. If any veteran player would like to participate in playing custom games (Fall balance patch) please contact me.
26 Jul 2017, 12:13 PM
#18
avatar of 0ld_Shatterhand
Donator 22

Posts: 194


I have a question I didn't check. Does AI minefield from werh suppress?


No, it doesn´t. It would be pretty useless if it does though. One single S-Mine doesn't do that much damage, so it's dependant on the fact, that the squad will carry on moving throw it, thus taking more damage. If it would deal suppression, the squad would stop moving and you would have more than enough time to retreat/move out of the S-Mine field and thus rendering it almost useless.
26 Jul 2017, 13:09 PM
#19
avatar of KyleAkira

Posts: 410



No, it doesn´t. It would be pretty useless if it does though. One single S-Mine doesn't do that much damage, so it's dependant on the fact, that the squad will carry on moving throw it, thus taking more damage. If it would deal suppression, the squad would stop moving and you would have more than enough time to retreat/move out of the S-Mine field and thus rendering it almost useless.


In my case, I don't like mines to deal damage, I like them to stop unforeseen flanks (Coh1 style) by stopping enemy infantry.
26 Jul 2017, 13:10 PM
#20
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 18


Mortar Pit: Seems better now, it should be microed to deal long range damage. I would only reduce its armor to small guns so you can damage it with regular infantry in case of a frontal push.


Basically the reason that we can't port our full revamp changes to the mortar pit are:
- improved emplacements gives an additive +5 armour bonus. This would be enough to effectively make mortar pits immune to small arms fire, regardless.
- Brace also uses an additive +5 armour. Again this would render the emplacement unkillable while bracing
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