Login

russian armor

How to counter this 2v2 double OKW meta?

18 May 2017, 10:05 AM
#61
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 5441 | Subs: 35

I think nobody has a problem that OKW can reinforce on the T1. Its just the forward retread point! I mean you blob in, retread, 30 sec later you are on the field again and blob again...

This does no matter in 1vs1 I know, but in 2vs2-4vs4.

And I have no problem to kill the forward retread point from brits as well.

I think USA is fine, Major comes very late. But for OKW and Brits this FRP is just non sense shit
18 May 2017, 10:18 AM
#62
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2977 | Subs: 3

I think nobody has a problem that OKW can reinforce on the T1. Its just the forward retread point! I mean you blob in, retread, 30 sec later you are on the field again and blob again...

This does no matter in 1vs1 I know, but in 2vs2-4vs4.

And I have no problem to kill the forward retread point from brits as well.

I think USA is fine, Major comes very late. But for OKW and Brits this FRP is just non sense shit


^
18 May 2017, 10:19 AM
#63
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066

To be able to take FRPs out, you need to start thinking of field reinforcement options for those factions. EFA are not exactly helpless on this, as they have their non-doc halftracks. OST can also build command bunkers.

Halftrack reinforcing does require micro, but it pays dividents for it, as you can reinforce also on enemy sectors.

For USF we can probably add a speed governors upgrade (that requires tech, though) to the ambulance to make it move faster, and maybe even allow reinforcing to work outside friendly territory.

For UKF, we can always make their M5 available non-doc, and tie Vickers/PIAT dropping to the doctrine.

The big question is what happens for OKW. While I Know that T1 & T4 is cancer to take out, the faction itself lacks the tools. We can't add 251, because OKW lacks the skins for it. IRHT should probably not be available non-doc.
- Should we allow walking stuka to reinforce on-the-field?
- Should we lift the restriction on MedHQ to allow them to be built elswhere too? (but made both weaker and cheaper)?

If OKW is to be the aggressive faction they need some way to maintain field presence. FRP are a low-micro brute-force of achieving this. Being able to only reinforce near fixed locations is an enormous disadvantage.

I know that OKW behaves more than turtle-incarnate faction rather than an aggressive faction. However, this can change if they no longer trivially-win the lategame.



OKW has bunkers right? Give it a reinforcement/med bunkerish thing like Ostheer has.
18 May 2017, 10:28 AM
#64
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17



OKW has bunkers right? Give it a reinforcement/med bunkerish thing like Ostheer has.


The problem here is that OKW doesn't have the amazing team weapons that OST has. Axis already has OST acting as the de-facto defensive faction.

If you take away FRPs and don't give mobile reinforcement options to OKW, there will be no incentive for them to ever launch an offensive (otherwise, a bad retreat means that your trucks will be swept away). In that case OST will be the defensive faction, and OKW will become the super-turtle faction.
18 May 2017, 10:37 AM
#65
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2977 | Subs: 3

It would also be awesome if vet 0 Stuka would lose its 100% accuracy creeping barrage, and have a normal barrage with same scatter behavior like panzerwerfer instead.

And maybe that vet 3 or 4 now additionally (next to increased range / incendiary barrage) unlocks the creeping barrage
18 May 2017, 10:39 AM
#66
avatar of Bananenheld

Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1



If you take away FRPs and don't give mobile reinforcement options to OKW, there will be no incentive for them to ever launch an offensive (otherwise, a bad retreat means that your trucks will be swept away). In that case OST will be the defensive faction, and OKW will become the super-turtle faction.

So just like playing okw and going t2 first? You cant launch an attack without frp? :Huh: im kinda confused right now what you mean by this
18 May 2017, 10:43 AM
#67
avatar of Intelligence209

Posts: 1124



The problem here is that OKW doesn't have the amazing team weapons that OST has. Axis already has OST acting as the de-facto defensive faction.

If you take away FRPs and don't give mobile reinforcement options to OKW, there will be no incentive for them to ever launch an offensive (otherwise, a bad retreat means that your trucks will be swept away). In that case OST will be the defensive faction, and OKW will become the super-turtle faction.


Why don't you just make it to where OKW doesn't have a frp? 9/10 times I don't build my medic truck outside my base I fear of artillery.

So just reduce battlegrouo to home sector but give meds for free once again.

I mean not every faction needs a frp or a field reinforcing unit right?

This is all in assumption of rocket arty and brace being nerf so OKW has a chance against such units
18 May 2017, 10:58 AM
#68
avatar of Garrett

Posts: 309 | Subs: 1



Why don't you just make it to where OKW doesn't have a frp? 9/10 times I don't build my medic truck outside my base I fear of artillery.

So just reduce battlegrouo to home sector but give meds for free once again.

I mean not every faction needs a frp or a field reinforcing unit right?

This is all in assumption of rocket arty and brace being nerf so OKW has a chance against such units


Maybe not every faction, but in that case two allied factions would have one, but none axis. You can imagine how infantry engagement on large 3v3s and 4v4s, even 2v2s would look like. The USF and UKF infantry is probably on the field again before your axis units are even reinforced, let alone on the long way to the front again.
18 May 2017, 11:09 AM
#69
avatar of bulldozer

Posts: 13

Give OKW huge penalties for losing truck with frp same for allies. Make it high risk high reward thing.
18 May 2017, 12:26 PM
#70
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7

I think nobody has a problem that OKW can reinforce on the T1. Its just the forward retread point! I mean you blob in, retread, 30 sec later you are on the field again and blob again...


THIS
18 May 2017, 12:54 PM
#71
avatar of some one

Posts: 935



The problem here is that OKW doesn't have the amazing team weapons that OST has. Axis already has OST acting as the de-facto defensive faction.

If you take away FRPs and don't give mobile reinforcement options to OKW, there will be no incentive for them to ever launch an offensive (otherwise, a bad retreat means that your trucks will be swept away). In that case OST will be the defensive faction, and OKW will become the super-turtle faction.


InfraRed Halftrack would suit
18 May 2017, 14:05 PM
#72
avatar of TüMe

Posts: 558 | Subs: 2

what sturmpanther said. problem is not the reinforce eventually. problem is the low apm one click retreat behind bush to ur hq. i dont mean you shouldnt be able to do it anymore, you can still do it in front of ur enemy base if u feel like. you just have to care ur units back there, and not have easy way one click out of shit. and in the end. any1 could say ''usf has the same'' well, one stuka barrage to usf forward retreat point and u lose atleast major and ambulance. also usf retreat point cost 120fuel. okw just loses 5% hp from hq if u do the same. But if it bothers some1, should remove all factions frp, to put all factions in same line with this. hts/ambulances,bunkers and trucks still having the heal/reinforce ability, just not the frp.


edit. If u look gentlefoxs stream sometimes, and watch how he uses HT and reinforce ability, for ostheer, thats how every1 else should use it too. requires some work in front line, but eventually if ur opponent doesnt make any move, pays off.
18 May 2017, 15:29 PM
#73
avatar of voltardark

Posts: 967

jump backJump back to quoted post18 May 2017, 14:05 PMTüMe
what sturmpanther said. problem is not the reinforce eventually. problem is the low apm one click retreat behind bush to ur hq. i dont mean you shouldnt be able to do it anymore, you can still do it in front of ur enemy base if u feel like. you just have to care ur units back there, and not have easy way one click out of shit. and in the end. any1 could say ''usf has the same'' well, one stuka barrage to usf forward retreat point and u lose atleast major and ambulance. also usf retreat point cost 120fuel. okw just loses 5% hp from hq if u do the same. But if it bothers some1, should remove all factions frp, to put all factions in same line with this. hts/ambulances,bunkers and trucks still having the heal/reinforce ability, just not the frp.


edit. If u look gentlefoxs stream sometimes, and watch how he uses HT and reinforce ability, for ostheer, thats how every1 else should use it too. requires some work in front line, but eventually if ur opponent doesnt make any move, pays off.


It's fair.
+100
19 May 2017, 09:59 AM
#74
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17

jump backJump back to quoted post18 May 2017, 14:05 PMTüMe

edit. If u look gentlefoxs stream sometimes, and watch how he uses HT and reinforce ability, for ostheer, thats how every1 else should use it too. requires some work in front line, but eventually if ur opponent doesnt make any move, pays off.


I agree with you here.

I don't disagree that FRPs should be, ideally, removed from the game.

What I'm trying to establish alternatives for OKW. Having a tech-tied limited-to-1 immobile base will probably not be sufficient for the faction.
19 May 2017, 10:11 AM
#75
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2977 | Subs: 3



I agree with you here.

I don't disagree that FRPs should be, ideally, removed from the game.

What I'm trying to establish alternatives for OKW. Having a tech-tied limited-to-1 immobile base will probably not be sufficient for the faction.


Then do it like the vCoH brit HQ so that the med HQ can deploy and re-deploy whenever it wants :jk:

Nah I think making reinforcement next to IRHT and/or Stuka possible would be a good first step then, we would see if this would be enough compensation or not.
19 May 2017, 11:14 AM
#76
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17



Then do it like the vCoH brit HQ so that the med HQ can deploy and re-deploy whenever it wants :jk:

Nah I think making reinforcement next to IRHT and/or Stuka possible would be a good first step then, we would see if this would be enough compensation or not.


The more I think about it, giving access to field reinforcements for both units, with performance adjustments, (and taking away FRP) will help OKW be more mobile, and will make both tiers attractive with respect to one another (especially after OKW gets access to smoke).
19 May 2017, 20:23 PM
#77
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2

To be able to take FRPs out, you need to start thinking of field reinforcement options for those factions. EFA are not exactly helpless on this, as they have their non-doc halftracks. OST can also build command bunkers.

Halftrack reinforcing does require micro, but it pays dividents for it, as you can reinforce also on enemy sectors.

For USF we can probably add a speed governors upgrade (that requires tech, though) to the ambulance to make it move faster, and maybe even allow reinforcing to work outside friendly territory.

For UKF, we can always make their M5 available non-doc, and tie Vickers/PIAT dropping to the doctrine.

The big question is what happens for OKW. While I Know that T1 & T4 is cancer to take out, the faction itself lacks the tools. We can't add 251, because OKW lacks the skins for it. IRHT should probably not be available non-doc.
- Should we allow walking stuka to reinforce on-the-field?
- Should we lift the restriction on MedHQ to allow them to be built elswhere too? (but made both weaker and cheaper)?

If OKW is to be the aggressive faction they need some way to maintain field presence. FRP are a low-micro brute-force of achieving this. Being able to only reinforce near fixed locations is an enormous disadvantage.

I know that OKW behaves more than turtle-incarnate faction rather than an aggressive faction. However, this can change if they no longer trivially-win the lategame.



whaaat? not everybody needs their own version of M3 or ambulance.... ambo is completely fine even if FRPs goes away and brit will always have a soft retreat base for 250mp so they are fine - actually fits with their theme just fine.

only real problem would be okw since as you say they are aggro faction. i thought of doubling health for the med base and discounts after you lose it but making it redployable sounds good too.
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest

Livestreams

Germany 26
Germany 572

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • U.S. Forces flag cblanco ★
  • The British Forces flag 보드카 중대
  • Oberkommando West flag VonManteuffel
  • Ostheer flag Heartless Jäger
uploaded by XXxxHeartlessxxXX

Board Info

617 users are online: 1 member and 616 guests
Katitof
18 posts in the last 24h
46 posts in the last week
100 posts in the last month
Registered members: 44652
Welcome our newest member, Soumyfwr7
Most online: 2043 users on 29 Oct 2023, 01:04 AM