Obers are an investment that pays off with unit preservation as soon as they hit Vet 2 and start picking off models with every LMG burst. They either A) Randomly die before Vet 2 and are generally are a waste of MP or B) Become one of your MVP squads for the game and wreck face.
Personally I've always liked Miragefla's solution of a cheaper T4 Truck that needs to be upgraded to call in Tanks so that you can get Obers out sooner before they have to contend with Vetted/Upgraded Allied Infantry. I think other things can be done too (Spreading out Veterancy bonuses more and changing the Vet 4 suppression into a timed ability like they did with the Luches.
Are Obersoldaten balanced?
27 Apr 2017, 16:29 PM
#21
Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1
27 Apr 2017, 16:35 PM
#22
Posts: 278
They are balanced but they're balanced in a pretty dumb way, IMO. Their high vet performance is crazy bonkers, but it's mitigated by their high cost and the (pretty severe) difficulty of keeping them alive for long enough to get there.
I think they would make much more sense thematically if they came out strong, but did not gain much from veterancy. After all, these guys are already supposed to be elite. What are they learning in this battle that the hadn't learned in the hundred battles they'd already fought? MP cost would have to be reduced and survivability increased to make this work, but I think it'd feel much more fair for everyone involved.
I think they would make much more sense thematically if they came out strong, but did not gain much from veterancy. After all, these guys are already supposed to be elite. What are they learning in this battle that the hadn't learned in the hundred battles they'd already fought? MP cost would have to be reduced and survivability increased to make this work, but I think it'd feel much more fair for everyone involved.
27 Apr 2017, 18:55 PM
#23
Posts: 1216
I think they should be strong with relatively few veterancy bonuses. But then that kind of negates the point of veterancy.
Nerfing them would just make them closer to Volks.
I dunno, give them panzerschreck upgrade to compete with LMG34? I'd love an alternative to Sturmpioniers with panzerschreck, plus it expands two units' roles.
If we're talking about altering veterancy, I'd think something more utility might be useful, ie they capture territory faster, and reduce suppression of nearby friendlies. That way, vetted Obers aren't more uber via killing power but amplify the abilities of other units.
Nerfing them would just make them closer to Volks.
I dunno, give them panzerschreck upgrade to compete with LMG34? I'd love an alternative to Sturmpioniers with panzerschreck, plus it expands two units' roles.
If we're talking about altering veterancy, I'd think something more utility might be useful, ie they capture territory faster, and reduce suppression of nearby friendlies. That way, vetted Obers aren't more uber via killing power but amplify the abilities of other units.
27 Apr 2017, 19:07 PM
#24
Posts: 210
They are balanced but they're balanced in a pretty dumb way, IMO. Their high vet performance is crazy bonkers, but it's mitigated by their high cost and the (pretty severe) difficulty of keeping them alive for long enough to get there.
I think they would make much more sense thematically if they came out strong, but did not gain much from veterancy. After all, these guys are already supposed to be elite. What are they learning in this battle that the hadn't learned in the hundred battles they'd already fought? MP cost would have to be reduced and survivability increased to make this work, but I think it'd feel much more fair for everyone involved.
I agree. The whole design around them is flawed. They come late came already, but start off pretty mediocre until they get their vet. Why?
Might as well rename them uberlate soldatens. One of the reasons why rifles and volks are so good is because they scale consistently in the game. Obers go from near useless to OP as hell. There needs to be a middle ground for them.
Consistency is better for the balance.
27 Apr 2017, 19:16 PM
#25
Posts: 500
Consistency is better for the balance.
This.
Bipolar units are ridiculously hard to balance, to the point where nobody is happy with units like the King Tiger, Sturm Tiger, Jagdtiger, ISU 152 etc. etc., because they're either kicking ass or kicking the bucket.
Obers fall into the same category, expensive, have two gears: Reverse and Kill
Makes it hard to balance.
27 Apr 2017, 19:19 PM
#26
Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1
They shred cons and penal left and right.
27 Apr 2017, 19:22 PM
#27
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
They are fine apart from the suppression they receive with veterancy.
Ans they are not made to be a-moved used (at least until vet). Bait with Volks, keep them behind them, behind cover and they will vet quite fast without losses.
Ans they are not made to be a-moved used (at least until vet). Bait with Volks, keep them behind them, behind cover and they will vet quite fast without losses.
27 Apr 2017, 21:02 PM
#29
Posts: 1158
Fighting obers with infantry just doesn't work. Even HMG gets eradicated from the front by them. As USF, m8 is the only effective option for me.
29 Jul 2014, 12:16 PM by siuking666:
T34/76 is NOT a joke on my hands; Maybe on your hands you make it suck shit? but on me, No. I can kill a stug with a little micro, go toe to toe with a Panzer 4. Is it a joke? LOL T34/85 is apparently a very good tank. But no one says it "one hit wipe" or elefant penetration; up to a point i think this little medium tank just have too much health and too much firepower with that fuel cost.
27 Apr 2017, 21:43 PM
#30
Posts: 2066
Fighting obers with infantry just doesn't work. Even HMG gets eradicated from the front by them. As USF, m8 is the only effective option for me.
Sherman HE makes them run everytime too
Kappa
27 Apr 2017, 21:56 PM
#31
Posts: 245
They are barely worth buying, they become very good with vet, like all elite units. I don't think you'll find anybody good that would call them OP
27 Apr 2017, 22:03 PM
#32
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
I agree. The whole design around them is flawed. They come late came already, but start off pretty mediocre until they get their vet. Why?
Obers go from near useless to OP as hell. There needs to be a middle ground for them.
Consistency is better for the balance.
Not much more to add.
PD: whatever change they implement, passive suppression has to go away.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
27 Apr 2017, 22:42 PM
#33
Posts: 1158
Sherman HE makes them run everytime too
absolutely, but I find the Sherman will miss or generally have less desirable results more often than the m8. The m8 also has longer reach. Both of them you have to get lucky with the scatter, but I find the m8 is more effective and frustrates my opponent into taking more risks than normal. Kind of like hitting on a girl that is drunk, instead of the much harder sober approach.
29 Jul 2014, 12:16 PM by siuking666:
T34/76 is NOT a joke on my hands; Maybe on your hands you make it suck shit? but on me, No. I can kill a stug with a little micro, go toe to toe with a Panzer 4. Is it a joke? LOL T34/85 is apparently a very good tank. But no one says it "one hit wipe" or elefant penetration; up to a point i think this little medium tank just have too much health and too much firepower with that fuel cost.
28 Apr 2017, 00:20 AM
#34
Posts: 3053
That includes 2 vet three bars riflemen or double been Tommies?
Yes, beause they literally have passive suppression. Have you not noticed? Their vet4/5 state isn't the problem (actually it's more in the opposite direction), it's that when they first show up and up until they hit those vet levels, they are just plainly worse than volks. IMO that's only because volks are just straight better than they should be right now.
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28 Apr 2017, 00:24 AM
#35
Posts: 3053
Obers are an investment that pays off with unit preservation as soon as they hit Vet 2 and start picking off models with every LMG burst. They either A) Randomly die before Vet 2 and are generally are a waste of MP or B) Become one of your MVP squads for the game and wreck face.
Personally I've always liked Miragefla's solution of a cheaper T4 Truck that needs to be upgraded to call in Tanks so that you can get Obers out sooner before they have to contend with Vetted/Upgraded Allied Infantry. I think other things can be done too (Spreading out Veterancy bonuses more and changing the Vet 4 suppression into a timed ability like they did with the Luches.
+1
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28 Apr 2017, 04:54 AM
#36
Posts: 930
obers are good right now, but they are highly situational.
Actually, its the only OKW unit that isn't a braindead decision.
At late game when both sides lost vetted squads obers reign supreme.
And don't forget about the 2 grenades + booby traps they have for even more late game control.
Actually, its the only OKW unit that isn't a braindead decision.
At late game when both sides lost vetted squads obers reign supreme.
And don't forget about the 2 grenades + booby traps they have for even more late game control.
28 Apr 2017, 05:27 AM
#37
Posts: 721
They aren't really when they hit vet4/5. There is a big difference between what they can do to opposing squads.
Now it is sure that Volks actual state doesn't help.
Let's see how the balance team want to balance the faction in the future but I'm concern with an infantry squad that can only be reliably countered with tanks...
waaaaaaaaaat......???
where are you pulling this from..??
here have it test yourself
vet 3 double bren tommies 5 squad obviously vs obers vet 3 or 5 as you please..test in both green cover,yellow cover and open...medium range
same with vet 3 rifles with double bar....
surprise surprise
28 Apr 2017, 05:30 AM
#38
Posts: 721
Yes, beause they literally have passive suppression. Have you not noticed? Their vet4/5 state isn't the problem (actually it's more in the opposite direction), it's that when they first show up and up until they hit those vet levels, they are just plainly worse than volks. IMO that's only because volks are just straight better than they should be right now.
no..??? maybe obers and falls are just shitty really where do you people pull out this words do you even test these ..??
28 Apr 2017, 07:11 AM
#39
Posts: 911
At late game when both sides lost vetted squads obers reign supreme.
You know what else comes at late game? Tanks, Do you know how well obers do vs tanks?
Imagine my playercard is here
28 Apr 2017, 07:20 AM
#40
Posts: 3600 | Subs: 1
If you re-read my intro, I'm far from saying Obers are OP, I'm saying in my opinion they aren't balance.
There is obviously something wrong with the Volks but Obers reaching vet4-5 aren't anymore playing on the same category.
As a USF player, the M8A1 is effectively the go to counter but it is a problem when you have no other option because no infantry can stand before them.
There is obviously something wrong with the Volks but Obers reaching vet4-5 aren't anymore playing on the same category.
As a USF player, the M8A1 is effectively the go to counter but it is a problem when you have no other option because no infantry can stand before them.
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