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Conscripts y u so bad

14 Apr 2017, 12:51 PM
#61
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066

I don´t want to be pesimistic, but if we give conscripts indoctrinal ppsh, we will have to remove their vet3 recieved accuracy bonus.

Because currently ppsh vet3 conscripts beat vet3 lmg grens, always. I run several tests and it always ended the same.

Even if conscripts run through red cover whole time without using ooorah and grens are in green cover - grens will lose.

Conscripts always win against grens if both are vet3, cons have ppsh and grens have lmg42.


SOLUTION: Make conscripts a cannot fodder unit. At vet 3 they get decrease in reinforcement cost (15-16 mp) and also decrease their "value" so other units vet less from killing vet3 conscripts (so they become cannon fodded but not vet fodder :D)


Well that is why you have panzergrenadiers.
14 Apr 2017, 13:07 PM
#62
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7



Well that is why you have panzergrenadiers.


So you want me to say that 240 mp unit with 40 munny upgrade should defeat 240 mp unit with 60 munny upgrade. Always ! No matter where each of these units stand. Even cover and tactical play won´t help grens
14 Apr 2017, 13:22 PM
#63
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

Grens with LMGs versus Conscripts with PPsH is still a matter of long range and short range.

Conscripts with PPsH won't necessarily be fighting Grens 1v1 either at that stage of the game either.

IMO a stock con PPSH upgrade should be fuel based and global.
14 Apr 2017, 13:51 PM
#64
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066



So you want me to say that 240 mp unit with 40 munny upgrade should defeat 240 mp unit with 60 munny upgrade. Always ! No matter where each of these units stand. Even cover and tactical play won´t help grens


No not always, but grens suck vs pretty much everything, so it wouldn´t really matter in this case. The point being is that cons should´t keep on sucking just because grens suck lol.
14 Apr 2017, 14:35 PM
#65
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7



No not always, but grens suck vs pretty much everything, so it wouldn´t really matter in this case. The point being is that cons should´t keep on sucking just because grens suck lol.



all infantry squads should suck like grens. To add tactical depth. Right now vet3 rifles vs vet 5 volks is 5 second fight compared to vanilla factions combats
14 Apr 2017, 15:00 PM
#66
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4

Can't we just make a ppsh doctrine good? Like change something out for mark target or something? Mark target is probably the best soviet ability in the game. Of course balance the doctrine so it doesn't become the next guard motor and spammed every game and balance cons accordingly but I don't see a problem with keeping it in doctrine.
14 Apr 2017, 15:12 PM
#67
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

Can't we just make a ppsh doctrine good? Like change something out for mark target or something? Mark target is probably the best soviet ability in the game. Of course balance the doctrine so it doesn't become the next guard motor and spammed every game and balance cons accordingly but I don't see a problem with keeping it in doctrine.

Conscript Support's pretty neat already. Just needs Incendiary Arty to get a buff and Hit the Dirt could use an extra little boost, and everything will be good.
14 Apr 2017, 15:47 PM
#68
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1

What Miragefla said - Cons just need their rifles adjusted so that they aren't a RNG unit that either A) Drops Models on the first volley and wins the engagement or B) Squad develops Parkinson's and can't hit crap.

The "High Model Count, Low Accuracy" design was fine at launch but hasn't aged all that well.
14 Apr 2017, 15:47 PM
#69
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066




all infantry squads should suck like grens. To add tactical depth. Right now vet3 rifles vs vet 5 volks is 5 second fight compared to vanilla factions combats


Agreed.
14 Apr 2017, 15:52 PM
#70
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1

What Miragefla said - Cons just need their rifles adjusted so that they aren't a RNG unit that either A) Drops Models on the first volley and wins the engagement or B) Squad develops Parkinson's and can't hit crap.

The "High Model Count, Low Accuracy" design was fine at launch but hasn't aged all that well.

I suppose an alternative to straight up Buffing Cons is just adding a "Rifle Training" Upgrade (either HQ or Unlocked at Tier 3-4) that improves accuracy or something along those lines.

14 Apr 2017, 15:57 PM
#71
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7



Agreed.


And that means conscripts has to be toned down if they get indoctrinal ppsh upgrade, to not roflstomp grens
14 Apr 2017, 16:57 PM
#72
avatar of FLTA

Posts: 200 | Subs: 1


I like this idea.

There are some other changes that'd be good though, like faster molotovs or molotov/nade package.

Your thoughts on these?


Molotovs are good enough in my opinion for 15mu, but they should be packaged with AT-nades or unlocked for free with T3/4.

At the moment unlocking them in early game sets you back a bit too much, especially since you most likely need AT-nades unlocked for 222 or Luchs.
14 Apr 2017, 17:06 PM
#73
avatar of Stark

Posts: 626 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Apr 2017, 23:20 PMMaret
How about to give cons "To the last man" ability like penals have? Replace this stupid "Flare mine" ability.


replacing vet1 with something else, that's a one hell of a idea :thumbsup: (thouh "to the last man" isn't the best option - better would be something more unique, more "brain"/skill ability)
14 Apr 2017, 17:26 PM
#74
avatar of Imagelessbean

Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1



The delay does not interfere with the anti garrison or emplacements since it still goes off. It just adds in a bit of reaction time seeing that there extremely little to no room to dodge it like any other grenade.


But a delay would be a serious nerf. Look at the molotov, that has a huge effective delay and it comes off as being a silly upgrade.

On the ahistoric portion of the flame nade, while I agree flame nades are fantasy, molotovs were used by all armies and they were common. If Volks had the ability changed to molotov it would be historically accurate, although it would be weird that it was different from scripts.

I used to advocated for reduced script cost at vet 3, so that they could be used for merge. This would make sense to me if they lost the received accuracy, as noted. This way conscripts would function like it cannon fodder, the original design, without being too good and overwhelming players.
14 Apr 2017, 17:29 PM
#75
avatar of stalinqtxoxo420mlg

Posts: 54

molotov throw time is cancer and should get massively reduced

everything else about the unit feels more or less fine imo
14 Apr 2017, 17:30 PM
#76
avatar of Maret

Posts: 711

What about ability that will works like "Radio net" from sherman? More squads of cons more stronger effect will be (just thinking about limit of squads when effect not will be grow anymore). From one side this will do cons effective only in masses and useless one by one (like Relic want to see cons - masses infantry), from other side such blob will be vulnerable to MG, rocket artillery and will be weaker when one squad of blob retreating.
14 Apr 2017, 17:44 PM
#77
avatar of c r u C e

Posts: 525



But a delay would be a serious nerf. Look at the molotov, that has a huge effective delay and it comes off as being a silly upgrade.

On the ahistoric portion of the flame nade, while I agree flame nades are fantasy, molotovs were used by all armies and they were common. If Volks had the ability changed to molotov it would be historically accurate, although it would be weird that it was different from scripts.

I used to advocated for reduced script cost at vet 3, so that they could be used for merge. This would make sense to me if they lost the received accuracy, as noted. This way conscripts would function like it cannon fodder, the original design, without being too good and overwhelming players.


So you advocated for them to continue being usseles,but worse?
Why cannon foder?
All the other factions base infantry scale decent in the late game with weapon upgrades...non doctrinal weapon upgrades...why is it necesary for these guys to be "support" or "utility" units and usseles in any combat situations excluding Ppsh commanders ?
Conscript's "usefulness" was being overshadowed by overperforming units(ROKS Penals,T70 or Maxim spam) but as these units are being corrected,you can clearly see that Conscripts are s**t.
14 Apr 2017, 18:00 PM
#78
avatar of Imagelessbean

Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1



So you advocated for them to continue being usseles,but worse?
Why cannon foder?
All the other factions base infantry scale decent in the late game with weapon upgrades...non doctrinal weapon upgrades...why is it necesary for these guys to be "support" or "utility" units and usseles in any combat situations excluding Ppsh commanders ?
Conscript's "usefulness" was being overshadowed by overperforming units(ROKS Penals,T70 or Maxim spam) but as these units are being corrected,you can clearly see that Conscripts are s**t.


They would be useless as front line infantry in the late game, but with powerful penals and maxims, you could keep armies on the field for half the cost of your opponent.
14 Apr 2017, 22:06 PM
#79
avatar of TickTack

Posts: 578

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Apr 2017, 16:57 PMFLTA


Molotovs are good enough in my opinion for 15mu, but they should be packaged with AT-nades or unlocked for free with T3/4.

At the moment unlocking them in early game sets you back a bit too much, especially since you most likely need AT-nades unlocked for 222 or Luchs.

+1
15 Apr 2017, 08:54 AM
#80
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Apr 2017, 17:30 PMMaret
What about ability that will works like "Radio net" from sherman? More squads of cons more stronger effect will be (just thinking about limit of squads when effect not will be grow anymore). From one side this will do cons effective only in masses and useless one by one (like Relic want to see cons - masses infantry), from other side such blob will be vulnerable to MG, rocket artillery and will be weaker when one squad of blob retreating.


This would totally destroy 1v1 since no axis mg can halt an entire firing blob before its gunner gets hit, especially if the blob has an ability that makes it stronger simply by being close to one another. It owuld also destroy team games since you can have 4 of these blobs in 4v4 that are getting buffed simply by being close to each other lol. Imagine these 4 different blobs being all at the same spot, my god the carnage.

If polished, it could work perhaps..
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