Ostheer Panther

This unit is underperforming hard. It needs some big work if it is to stay at its current price, since it doesn't reflect anything that should resemble such a price.

- It's armor is weak. This tanks is supposed to be a finisher, or a chaser, yet it can't reliably put itself on the front without getting easily penetrated by something as cheap and easy to get as an M10.

- It's rate of fire is pretty poor. It can't reliably dish out damage and fulfill it's intended role of as a finisher/chaser.

- It's accuracy is horrendous. It misses quite often, it misses most of the time on the move. Meanwhile other tanks and Allied tanks hit pretty often on the move. It can even reliably miss when standing perfectly still.

- It's too expensive in a faction that is already taxed to pump out a T3 tank as soon as possible or loose. It is locked behind a tier that is expensive to get and has little to no value apart from the Brumbahr.

It is sad really.

It's underperforming but don't say it armor is weak. It has better armor than tiger. Just don't show the enemy your rear.

It's accuracy needs help the most. Especially on the move.

Gibe DPS increase, should be gud. I don't think its durability is a big problem, it's pretty appropriate with its cost and speed. Its AT effectiveness which is otherwise the point of it just isn't good enough.

Armour is not weak at all, one of the best in game in fact. Just be sure to face enemy directly frontally, any side shot may end up being a rear shot into weak armour - a real disadvantage of panther. The rate of fire is not too good but generally what the tank needs to perform its role. Accurancy is easy to work around - just hit stop before shooting and issue new move order right after the shot - the tank gets its moving accurancy debuff removed after stop command is issued, no need to be stationary at all. As for the cost and tier it is cheap enough to be spammable in team games and expensive enough to be something in 1v1, I think its fine. The tier is also much more accessible than before and actually both brummbar and pwerfer got some buffs that make them usefull, or even needed on the battlefield.

Armor gets easily penetrated frontally by a M10. Watch Dane's casts. You can see it for yourself.

Armor gets easily penetrated frontally by a M10. Watch Dane's casts. You can see it for yourself.

Musta been HVAP shells, the normal penetration is around half of the Panther's front armour so it'll bounce half of the time at max range. HVAP, however, brings the penetration odds up to around 70%.

Armor gets easily penetrated frontally by a M10. Watch Dane's casts. You can see it for yourself.

m10? always?......but jackson penetrate was increased....its not panther frontal weak armor but its accurate really awfull on the move

Musta been HVAP shells, the normal penetration is around half of the Panther's front armour so it'll bounce half of the time at max range. HVAP, however, brings the penetration odds up to around 70%.

See for yourself lol

The Ostheer Panther is too weak. There have been mutliple threads about this already. Unless it gets a decent buff to its accuracy AND dps, Ostheer is going to struggle throughout the lategame.

A downgrade in dps from a Panzer IV omni purpose tank is simply not acceptable for an end of tech AT tank. The StuG fills the role of a tank hunter and sacrifices a turret thus its dps is okay.

The Panzer IV is fighting everything and does a better job than the Panther. The high penetration on the Pather is effectively not needed in most situations and no compensation for the slow rate of fire. Thus it is outperformed by the Panzer IV in AI and AP capabilities.

It's underperforming but don't say it armor is weak. It has better armor than tiger. Just don't show the enemy your rear.

It's accuracy needs help the most. Especially on the move.

^this.

Armour is fine. OR if it was changed then vet 2 bonus would have to be nerfed/removed.

I think it's more of a tier/price issue than the unit itself.

Armor weak , GL HF with this topic.

Armor weak , GL HF with this topic.

Did you look at the video I posted? The panther gets penetrated by m10s almost every time they fire at it frontally. They weren't using hvap every single time either..

Panther isn't the answer to M10. Actually M10 are the answer to Panthers.

Now making a thread upon a video where 2 M10 had some RNG favorable time vs a panther isn't going to prove anything.

Did you look at the video I posted? The panther gets penetrated by m10s almost every time they fire at it frontally. They weren't using hvap every single time either..

Do you hear about RNG in this game ? Its just bad RNG for panther.

Currently Ostheer Panther veterancy is as follows:
Vet1: Unlocks the 'Blitzkrieg' ability
Vet2: +10% armour +20% health, +40% weapon rotation speed
Vet3: -30% reload, +20% rotation speed, +10% ac/de-celeration

How about the following changes?

Vet0: Upgrade Panther main gun damage to 200 (from 160)
Vet2: Replace health/armour bonus with -30% reload bonus
Vet3: Replace reload bonus with gun damage increase from 200 to 240

Regarding the Vet1 ability, either:
- Make Blitzkrieg less of a no-brainer. E.g., using Blitzkrieg, the tank suffers from a debuff in max-speed and rotation-rate (say 20%), and acceleration (say 50%) for 10 seconds
- or, design a different ability. E.g., for 30 seconds, any tank hit by the Panther will remain visible even in the fog of war for 8 seconds (i.e., like the British Hammer ability, but without the bugs that make it practically useless).

The whole idea behind this is making the Panther into more of a glass cannon that can really bite. This is, while, at the same time removing the no-brainer part of the Blitzkrieg* ability which rewards bad plays too much.

The initial damage increase will have an impact mostly:
- vs advanced mediums (Comet, etc)
- veterancy gain for the Panther
- repair times for the opposition

On the other hand, the Vet3 bonus will have a profound effect on the Panther as it will effectively reduce the amount of successful shots needed to kill any target by at least 1.

*The Blitzkrieg nerf assumes UKF and OKW abilities will follow suit with a similar nerf.

Panther isn't the answer to M10. Actually M10 are the answer to Panthers.

Now making a thread upon a video where 2 M10 had some RNG favorable time vs a panther isn't going to prove anything.

The Panther is bad, simply showing that M10s can easily penetrate the Panther frontally is adding to the fact that the Ostheer Panther is underperforming hard.

Currently Ostheer Panther veterancy is as follows:
Vet1: Unlocks the 'Blitzkrieg' ability
Vet2: +10% armour +20% health, +40% weapon rotation speed
Vet3: -30% reload, +20% rotation speed, +10% ac/de-celeration

How about the following changes?

Vet0: Upgrade Panther main gun damage to 200 (from 160)
Vet1: After using Blitzkrieg, the tank suffers from a debuff in max-speed and rotation-rate (say 20%), and acceleration (say 50%) for 10 seconds
Vet2: Replace health/armour bonus with -30% reload bonus
Vet3: Replace reload bonus with gun damage increase from 200 to 240

The whole idea behind this is making the Panther into more of a glass cannon that can really bite. This is, while, at the same time removing the no-brainer part of the Blitzkrieg* ability which rewards bad plays too much.

The initial damage increase will have an impact mostly:
- vs advanced mediums (Comet, etc)
- veterancy gain for the Panther
- repair times for the opposition

On the other hand, the Vet3 bonus will have a profound effect on the Panther as it will effectively reduce the amount of successful shots needed to kill any target by at least 1.

*The Blitzkrieg nerf assumes UKF and OKW abilities will follow suit with a similar nerf.

Sounds good man.

Sounds good man.

FYI: I ninja-edited my post about the Vet1 ability before you responded to the original post.

That's basically a proposal for an alternative Vet1 that acts like British Hammer marking of vehicles. This should give the Panther an edge over long-range tank destroyers.

The ability could see use in the following situations:
- enabling Panther packs to utilise their full-range when diving in(at the risk of being ambushed due to low acceleration/deceleration)
- using a single Panther as a command vehicle of sorts to light-up targets for your Stugs, etc

Thus, the Panther will see some utility that will make it desirable to have at least 1 Panther fielded instead of another Stug, or another P4.

With those "changes", I can't wait for a Panther to 2 shot a Jackson, or 3 Shot a anything that's not a Pershing.