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Teamkill-rate of Allies-arty??

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aerafield
12 Jul 2016, 13:43 PM
#1
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Hey there, if you compare the friendly-fire damage of axis- and allies-arty, you will see that Panzerwerfer and Stuka SMASH their allied troops(yours/ your teammates'), while their allies counterparts (Katyusha,Calliope,Land matress etc.) maybe deal 5% damage to your own or your teammate's units like "Hey, I don't really care that you've hit me, it's ok :)"

And this makes no sense... so it should be either no teamkills or a realistic (high) teamkillrate for BOTH. I prefer the realistic high model(what we currently have on axis arty) because this would mean that players need to think more about their arty usage if they wanna use it in case of supporting their teammate during his push, and need to communicate more like "Hey watch out, I'm shooting there"

Btw this realistic teamkillrate also would make sense for all mortars in this game, wouldn't it?
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NEVEC
12 Jul 2016, 14:34 PM
#2
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What is this thread supposed to mean? Explosive weapons (all of them) doing like 10-0% of damage to friendly units.
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|GB| The Hooligan486
12 Jul 2016, 14:36 PM
#3
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jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jul 2016, 13:43 PMaerafield
Hey there, if you compare the friendly-fire damage of axis- and allies-arty, you will see that Panzerwerfer and Stuka SMASH their allied troops(yours/ your teammates'), while their allies opponents (Katyusha,Calliope,Land matress etc.) maybe deal 5% damage to your own or your teammate's units like "Hey, I don't really care that you've hit me, it's ok :)"

And this makes no sense... so it should be either no teamkills or a realistic (high) teamkillrate for BOTH. I prefer the realistic high model(what we currently have on axis arty) because this would mean that players need to think more about their arty usage if they wanna use it in case of supporting their teammate during his push, and need to communicate more like "Hey watch out, I'm shooting there"

Btw this realistic teamkillrate also would make sense for all mortars in this game, wouldn't it?

Can't agree more, +1000 for the realistic version
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wouren
12 Jul 2016, 16:20 PM
#4
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Can someone screenshot the stat page for each weapon's friendly fire damage?
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Imagelessbean
12 Jul 2016, 16:53 PM
#5
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Just a quick warning, making allied arty do high damage to friendly fire would make griefing easier in team games. If not for this I would like to see all arty be lethal and ignore unit owner modifiers.
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skyshark
12 Jul 2016, 17:34 PM
#6
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Posts: 239

i think i remember seeing someone smart (like cruzz) saying that arty friendly fire does only 25% damage.

this is ridiculous, since it rewards blobbing and careless play. arty should do full damage to both sides.

if your teammates decide to drop indirect on your base/buildings, then... pick new teammates?
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Tiger Baron
12 Jul 2016, 17:42 PM
#7
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jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jul 2016, 17:34 PMskyshark
i think i remember seeing someone smart (like cruzz) saying that arty friendly fire does only 25% damage.

this is ridiculous, since it rewards blobbing and careless play. arty should do full damage to both sides.

if your teammates decide to drop indirect on your base/buildings, then... pick new teammates?


Someone smart lmao, he's just a modder, that's why he's so "smart" as you say.

But seriously, making arty more lethal to your Allies is going to be a troll/griefer's dream and this game isn't exactly a General Simulator so I suggest we actually DON'T stimulate more griefers and trolls to try to and shoot their teammates' units/buildings.

I know most of you won't believe me but once played with Janne (CheatMod creator) and he destroyed my base with around 10 or so land mattresses before they nerfed them in a single barrage while we were on the same team, said he wanted to see the damage it'd do, we were both Brits so...

But yeah, no need for that if you ask me, it would be better for realism for all arty to be doing the same damage to everybody but it would be better gameplay wise for Arty to be doing less damage to it's team's units and buildings.
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skyshark
12 Jul 2016, 17:58 PM
#8
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maybe make it do full damage to your own, but partial to teammates?

it's super annoying to watch sturmpios charge through ISG fire while i have to run away.
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aerafield
12 Jul 2016, 22:26 PM
#9
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jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jul 2016, 17:58 PMskyshark
maybe make it do full damage to your own, but partial to teammates?

it's super annoying to watch sturmpios charge through ISG fire while i have to run away.


Only partial for teammates? I dunno... it wouldn't be that much of a deal if you communicate with your teammate in this situation, would it? :D

But I've seen ppl firing with e.g. land matress or howitzer and they/their teammates just went into these shells/rockets like they dont give a f*ck, and this is really ridiculous :D
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aerafield
12 Jul 2016, 22:54 PM
#10
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jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jul 2016, 16:53 PMImagelessbean
Just a quick warning, making allied arty do high damage to friendly fire would make griefing easier in team games. If not for this I would like to see all arty be lethal and ignore unit owner modifiers.


Griefing is (in every video game) already easy enough, don't worry. People could just go afk in order to troll you, they don't need realistic teamkill arty. :)
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medhood
12 Jul 2016, 22:56 PM
#11
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jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jul 2016, 22:26 PMaerafield


Only partial for teammates? I dunno... it wouldn't be that much of a deal if you communicate with your teammate in this situation, would it? :D

But I've seen ppl firing with e.g. land matress or howitzer and they/their teammates just went into these shells/rockets like they dont give a f*ck, and this is really ridiculous :D

It should be left as is because people would troll and it'd kinda ruin random teamgames

But your own units should do full damage to your units so you cant just have your SMG troops fight enemy SMG troops and a mortar falls on top killing half his squad and barely scratching yours
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Obersoldat
12 Jul 2016, 23:03 PM
#12
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"Friendly fire damage and damage against enemy units are completely different. As a general rule, tank guns have 50%, flamers 25%, explosive weapons mostly 0-10% damage with some notable exceptions like pwerfer (25%), walking stuka (50%), sturmtiger (100%). For example Brit base howitzer damage to friendlies is a whopping 2.5%, so a direct hit from a howitzer (160*0.025*4) deals as much damage to a full squad as a single hit from a kar98k (16*1)." -Cruzzi

Should have same values for axis and allies imo.
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ZombiFrancis
12 Jul 2016, 23:09 PM
#13
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Grenades have a 50% friendly fire damage for all varieties at least.

Relic took a bit of a heavy handed approach to the concept of 'hugging the enemy' with how friendly fire works.
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Ferdinand
12 Jul 2016, 23:14 PM
#14
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The arguement that an increase in friendly fire damage would cause trolling is irrevelant because certain Axis weapons already inflict significant friendly fire. The question at hand is should both sides inflict equal friendly fire or should the asymetrical friendly fire we currently have stay.

All AoE weapons should inflict massive damage on your own troops and relatively minor portion on friendly troops.
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pigsoup
13 Jul 2016, 01:04 AM
#15
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not sure about axis-allies arty's different team damages but they should all do 100% damage to teams like they did originally.

a stupid but feasable tactic like running into your team's katyusha barrage because it does almost no damage to you should not be possible.



















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easierwithaturret
13 Jul 2016, 02:19 AM
#16
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Posts: 247

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jul 2016, 17:58 PMskyshark
maybe make it do full damage to your own, but partial to teammates?



I think this is the sensible option. It's hard enough to coordinate in random team matches as it is, having arty do full damage would lead to too much rage.

As for OP's suggestion, I agree that we friendly fire damage should be standardised amongst weapons of similar types i.e. all howitzers do the same, similar rocket artillery like pwerfer and calliope do the same. However there is a case for different values for units such as stuka, b4 and Sturmtiger to have higher friendly fire damage because they have higher burst damage and are somewhat more precise.
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nee
13 Jul 2016, 07:15 AM
#17
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Posts: 1216

We need to back up. OP claims that Axis artillery (actually, Panzerwerfer and Walking Stuka, not off-map artillery abilities in general) inflict more TK damage than their Allied counterparts.

But is this even true? Because if not, we're voting on an issue that may not even be an issue at all.
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aerafield
13 Jul 2016, 11:39 AM
#18
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jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jul 2016, 07:15 AMnee

But is this even true? Because if not, we're voting on an issue that may not even be an issue at all.


It is... I've seen it numerous times already (also on replay casts, YouTube videos etc.) :P
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Australian Magic
13 Jul 2016, 11:47 AM
#19
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Interesting fact...

PzWerfer kills your troops like they were enemy's.
Katyusha doesn't even tickle your troops.

Reason for that Relic??
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ZombiFrancis
13 Jul 2016, 14:58 PM
#20
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Posts: 2742

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jul 2016, 07:15 AMnee
We need to back up. OP claims that Axis artillery (actually, Panzerwerfer and Walking Stuka, not off-map artillery abilities in general) inflict more TK damage than their Allied counterparts.

But is this even true? Because if not, we're voting on an issue that may not even be an issue at all.


It is. I've done the research a few times.

All allied artillery deals a fraction of the damage as friendly fire compared to the friendly fire values of axis artillery.

Grenades are an exception, which deal 50% friendly fire for everyone.

The Land Mattress was a unique one that dealt an apparently arbitrary amount of friendly fire in between(ish) the general values for allies and axis.

Pretty much if you are allies you can tank artillery barrage after artillery barrage with your units, so there's never a reason to dodge them. Rather it's an incentive to assault into a barrage instead of after it.
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