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Week 3 Update to the Balance Mod

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Svanh
19 May 2016, 02:14 AM
#81
avatar of Svanh

Posts: 181

I think the crushing change is net good. It'll allow Relic to balance tanks against infantry without having to take into account their mobility and turning rate.

Let's look at the numbers of the other Cromwell nerf:

WeaponAccuracy (N/M/F)
AT gun0.06/0.05/0.04
Ost Panzerschreck0.069/0.052/0.028
OKW Panzerschreck0.05/0.0375/0.025








WeaponSize 18Size 23
AT gun hit chance (N/M/F)100%/90%/72%100%/100%/92%
Expected AT gun shots to kill (N/M/F)4/4.44/5.564/4/4.35

Ost Panzerschreck hit chance (N/M/F)		100%/93.6%/50.04%100%/100%/64.4%
Expected Ost Panzerschreck shots to kill (N/M/F)6/6.41/11.906/6/9.32
OKW Panzerschreck hit chance (N/M/F)90%/67.5%/45%100%/86.25%/57.5%
Expected OKW Panzerschreck shots to kill (N/M/F)6.67/8.89/13.336/6.96/10.43


The effect of the target size change is mostly in the Cromwell's ability to kite and make hit-and-run attacks. It does seem to be a little much given the sizes of comparable tanks (20-22) and that the Centaur is also size 18.

Looking at the stats, I think the OKW Panzerschreck might need an accuracy buff now it's on Sturmpioneers.
I think a good rule for balance suggestions is this:

"If you can't personally mod it in and you haven't met anyone who has, don't suggest it."
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vietnamabc
19 May 2016, 03:36 AM
#82
avatar of vietnamabc

Posts: 1063

jump backJump back to quoted post19 May 2016, 02:02 AMRappy

1 or 2 models? Ha! Have you played this game?

I can kill all but the last one or two men from at least three squads with a cromwell in just a few seconds. Perhaps you don't know how to use it well?

Where is the risk? A Cromwell can literally run rings around german infantry.

I do and against good player that is usually what crush can do before it force retreat, if you leave your a-move inf like that you deserve to be wiped and there is a lot of times OH and OKW deliberately lure tanks into mines with inf so crush is not exactly a safe solution you know.
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Hitman5
19 May 2016, 03:43 AM
#83
avatar of Hitman5

Posts: 467

Nice changes there. All solid
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Aerohank
19 May 2016, 05:41 AM
#84
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post19 May 2016, 00:45 AMSmaug
if you have played vs cloaked commandos you know the pain of nuclear nades.


Commandos don't have smoke grenades that slow down your units like Obers and Falls have. :foreveralone:
This might become a balance issue.
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Fanatic
19 May 2016, 06:00 AM
#85
avatar of Fanatic
Patrion 14

Posts: 480 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post18 May 2016, 18:48 PMcapiqua

Infantry Crushing

Experimental

Developer Comments: Infantry crushing was always meant to be a flavor mechanic. We found this mechanic used much too often to counter Infantry. We are limiting Infantry Crushing to Tanks that have Heavy Crush Capability only.

• Only Heavy Crush vehicles can crush infantry



I don´t like this idea. Crushing is an important aspect of the game. If you consider crushing as a problem its mostlikly because of the high maneuverability and acceleration of certain tanks and because of the tendency of certain units to stay too close together. And this is something that ahould be fixed anyway to prevent squad wipes from AoE weapons and mines while leaving buildings. So no, i am not a fan of this chance. Not at all.
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Highfiveeeee
19 May 2016, 06:15 AM
#86
avatar of Highfiveeeee

Posts: 1740

jump backJump back to quoted post18 May 2016, 18:48 PMcapiqua

• Only Heavy Crush vehicles can crush infantry


And all the Cromwell/M10 Players are like

It is though God by command has withdrawn every other throne.
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'

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RedT3rror
19 May 2016, 07:39 AM
#87
avatar of RedT3rror

Posts: 747 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post19 May 2016, 00:36 AMPanzerGeneralForever
My favorite mechanic to use in the game has been removed :(. RIP cromwells... Although now that i think about it, they also are removing shrecks from volks so it seems way more balanced that way...


Considering that Sturmpios now use Panzerschrecks.. I think not.
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TheMux2
19 May 2016, 07:45 AM
#88
avatar of TheMux2

Posts: 139

Moving the shrecks to sturms isnt solving the problem, its moving the problem to a different unit
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Katitof
19 May 2016, 08:14 AM
#89
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post19 May 2016, 07:45 AMTheMux2
Moving the shrecks to sturms isnt solving the problem, its moving the problem to a different unit


It actually makes the problem deeper as OKW now have shrecks AND snare AND volk potent AI upgrade.

Special snowflake forever. :snfQuinn:
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Ulaire Minya
19 May 2016, 08:32 AM
#90
avatar of Ulaire Minya

Posts: 372

jump backJump back to quoted post19 May 2016, 05:41 AMAerohank


Commandos don't have smoke grenades that slow down your units like Obers and Falls have. :foreveralone:
This might become a balance issue.

Can't wait for OKW smoke+bundle and Ost stun+bundle wipes. Relic comes through with retarded changes yet again.
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chipwreckt
19 May 2016, 09:00 AM
#91
avatar of chipwreckt

Posts: 732

jump backJump back to quoted post19 May 2016, 00:14 AMluvnest
why not just reduce the mobility of cromwells and M10s and leave infantry crushing as it is...


This. Don't remove crush. It is a part of the CoH series. We all know the acceleration on Cromwell and M10 is ridiculous/ to high. Decrease this and crushing will be a lot harder.
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TheMachine
19 May 2016, 09:19 AM
#92
avatar of TheMachine
Senior Caster Badge

Posts: 875 | Subs: 6

I haven't played it yet, but I really hope those nades aren't going to be over buffed. OP wipe thing nades like Guards and Gammon Bombs are horrible for Game play. I'm also worried about the best infantry based AT squad in the game being able to force away tanks then wiping Support Weapons AT guns with ease because of the nadesm
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Katitof
19 May 2016, 09:29 AM
#93
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post19 May 2016, 09:19 AMTheMachine
I haven't played it yet, but I really hope those nades aren't going to be over buffed. OP wipe thing nades like Guards and Gammon Bombs are horrible for Game play. I'm also worried about the best infantry based AT squad in the game being able to force away tanks then wiping Support Weapons AT guns with ease because of the nadesm

From the games I've played yesterday and a single toss I managed to do, it didn't do that much, but the squad I've tossed it at was quite spread out.

Will need to test it more, preferably on squads clumped up more.

However what you definitely can feel is the lack of crush, there are certain situations where meds just feel helpless.

Remember the times when single Tiger/IS-2 run like a puss from single con/gren squad, terrified by the AT nade engine damage? Well, we're right at this situation again for meds.

I feel for cromwell most as the target size change has a huge impact on shrecks accuracy and tank right now feels average at best.

Sherman though excells with its HE shells, other armor needs to run as soon as there is more then a single AT squad.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Alexx994
19 May 2016, 09:53 AM
#94
avatar of Alexx994

Posts: 3

In my opinion the update to tank crush is bad, tested it yesterday, you can't even crush pinned or suppressed infantry anymore with a medium tank... they should just fix the vehicle rotation for Cromwell and M10 since all other medium tanks don't have this kind of crush problem
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Stug life
19 May 2016, 10:39 AM
#95
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post18 May 2016, 21:15 PMPencilBatRation
How about increasing the hitpoints
nah the old fuel cost and manpower where ok if it did not crush compare it to a stug now and you see what I'm talking about
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
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UlyssesBellefonte
19 May 2016, 10:50 AM
#96
avatar of UlyssesBellefonte

Posts: 40

The Luftwaffe MG42 did need a change, i'm interested to see what gets implemented
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PencilBatRation
19 May 2016, 12:54 PM
#97
avatar of PencilBatRation

Posts: 794

Give brits a medics/healing building. Like, right now.


It was stupid for USF and it is stupid for UKF. Healing should never require micro.
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dasheepeh
19 May 2016, 12:59 PM
#98
avatar of dasheepeh

Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1

i hate the removal of crush on medium vehicles
servant to the vet 5 königskübel

b4 and soviet FHQ enthusiast

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mycalliope
19 May 2016, 13:46 PM
#99
avatar of mycalliope

Posts: 721

if we are looking at these commanders plz look at zeroing artillery it just a waste i mean assault artillery drops more shell than this ability it was performing good at wfa launch but then it was ninja nerfed....and replace airborne assault its just trading fallschimjager for munitions just make it a okw stuka close air support....and look at falls they are pretty underwhelming nobody uses them now even more because of volks changes
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PanzerGeneralForever
19 May 2016, 14:56 PM
#100
avatar of PanzerGeneralForever

Posts: 1072

jump backJump back to quoted post19 May 2016, 07:39 AMRedT3rror


Considering that Sturmpios now use Panzerschrecks.. I think not.


Shrecks on Spios is a big difference than on volks. 4 man squad vs 5 means its way more vulnerable to explosives (just like Pgrens and grens), they are more expensive to buy and reinforce, and they lose ~25% of their firepower with the upgrade (especially since they nerfed dmg of handheld AT weapons vs infantry).

I don't think Spio blobs will replace volks blobs.
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