This was something Relic was thinking about way back in beta, if I remember correctly.
The reason mirror matches don't belong in CoH2 are as follows:
1. Franchise legacy. Coh1 never allowed it.
2. Historical representation. Again, axis vs allies.
3. Gameplay balance. Everything is balanced around asymmetry.
4. You can't have a leaderboard/ranked matchmaking system with two separate pools: players playing mirror matches and players who aren't doing this. It would invalidate the ranking system entirely. It has to be all or nothing. It's the same reason each faction has a separate rank rather than players having an overall rank. (Which was actually the case in DoW2, with your most played race showing up on the leaderboard.)
As it stands, there's already a way to play mirror matches. And a lot of reasons to not add them.
Ultimate Balance - Allow Mirror Matchup
2 Feb 2016, 08:29 AM
#21
Posts: 1384
2 Feb 2016, 08:29 AM
#22
Posts: 1740
1. Players will get more aware of what part of their fav. faction is trully OP before they start
Not really, as factions have other counters as well. If both players played Ostheer for example, both wouldn't realize how weak the faction is against light tank rushs as Ostheer simply doesn't have one.
If you wanna know what is OP, then simply change from playing Axis to Allies or vice versa.
Relic can learn a lot from SC2.
No, they are two absolutely different games. The perspective and the controls are similar, but that's it mostly.
Mirror matches can be played against users in custom games, but in ranked they would simply throw up the balance completely (which isn't even very good without mirror matches).
Most people (including) me were rather distraught by the possibility of mirror matches when they were announced before the game's release.
It is though God by command has withdrawn every other throne.
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'
2 Feb 2016, 08:31 AM
#23
9 
Posts: 1094 | Subs: 20
No thank you.
2 Feb 2016, 08:40 AM
#24
Posts: 1617
This is coh, not spamcrap 2.
No.
No.
2 Feb 2016, 08:51 AM
#25
4 
Posts: 128
History mentioned. I thought that was a no-no. After all, this is a game with nothing to do with realism.
On a serious note, if there's a way to exclude it from search, why not.
On a serious note, if there's a way to exclude it from search, why not.
2 Feb 2016, 08:53 AM
#26
1 
Posts: 614
Who ever is suggesting mirror matches you fail to understand what the factions were designed around.
Let me give you a small example. Wth is the point of smoke if you're versing another USF?
Let me give you a small example. Wth is the point of smoke if you're versing another USF?
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2 Feb 2016, 09:07 AM
#27
Posts: 1144 | Subs: 7
i would actually be OK with mirror matches.
2 Feb 2016, 10:00 AM
#28
Posts: 1617
i would actually be OK with mirror matches.
Battle of RNG it would be. Gren vs gren, panther vs panther...so interesting to watch the dice rolls.
2 Feb 2016, 10:02 AM
#29
Posts: 1144 | Subs: 7
Battle of RNG it would be. Gren vs gren, panther vs panther...so interesting to watch the dice rolls.
sure if both players choose to play that grind-esque playstyle. personally i think in mirror matches itll come down to who has better positioning.
2 Feb 2016, 10:12 AM
#30
Posts: 1355
For that you have the custom matches. You can search there.
NO
NO
2 Feb 2016, 10:19 AM
#31
4 Posts: 182
NO...NO...NO...NO...NO... and NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
2 Feb 2016, 10:19 AM
#32
Posts: 1617
sure if both players choose to play that grind-esque playstyle. personally i think in mirror matches itll come down to who has better positioning.
How come?
That only works in the first 10-15 minutes after that the battlefield loses all of it's tactical advantage as the whole map becomes the Moon. No heavy cover, no light sight blockers, no houses only craters. Ever seen Langres in a long game? Same thing for most of the maps, then the only tactical choice is "in which crater do you want place your mg to face a blob".
Must be fun to watch M20 vs M20 or 222 vs 222...tactical positioning only works for infantry 'til the first light vehicle roll out.
I don't think the game is designed this.
2 Feb 2016, 10:38 AM
#33
Posts: 1144 | Subs: 7
How come?
That only works in the first 10-15 minutes after that the battlefield loses all of it's tactical advantage as the whole map becomes the Moon. No heavy cover, no light sight blockers, no houses only craters. Ever seen Langres in a long game? Same thing for most of the maps, then the only tactical choice is "in which crater do you want place your mg to face a blob".
Must be fun to watch M20 vs M20 or 222 vs 222...tactical positioning only works for infantry 'til the first light vehicle roll out.
I don't think the game is designed this.
maps do not become only craters after 15 minutes of the game. the only units in the ostheer roster that can really turn maps into the moon are mortars and pwerfers. ostheer has no way of heavy crushing until t4 or waiting for a 13cp heavy tank.
222 vs 222 would be kinda cool to watch actually. that matchup i think is ALL about positioning. whoever catches the other 222 out of position first wins. whoever plays BETTER will win. since all units have the same stats the only things that give players the edge are army composition, cover bonuses, and veterancy. aside from the sniper (fire rate would be really strong vs 4 men), i think wehr vs wehr is a pretty interesting matchup since wehr is probably the most generic army.
2 Feb 2016, 10:48 AM
#34
Posts: 1617
maps do not become only craters after 15 minutes of the game. the only units in the ostheer roster that can really turn maps into the moon are mortars and pwerfers. ostheer has no way of heavy crushing until t4 or waiting for a 13cp heavy tank.
222 vs 222 would be kinda cool to watch actually. that matchup i think is ALL about positioning. whoever catches the other 222 out of position first wins. whoever plays BETTER will win. since all units have the same stats the only things that give players the edge are army composition, cover bonuses, and veterancy. aside from the sniper (fire rate would be really strong vs 4 men), i think wehr vs wehr is a pretty interesting matchup since wehr is probably the most generic army.
True for Ostheer, its well rounded and balanced army. We had this balanced in coh 1 and 2. The problem is in coh 2 ostheer is the only balanced army, in coh 1 us and wehr was fun to watch and the key was on tactical positioning. Instead of mirror matches, just balance out the armies...fill the gaps and the game will be alright coz "ultimate balance" never comes.
For the 222s and other light vehicles, who fires first, who misses (even worse with tanks).
2 Feb 2016, 10:48 AM
#35
Posts: 742 | Subs: 1
Who ever is suggesting mirror matches you fail to understand what the factions were designed around.
Let me give you a small example. Wth is the point of smoke if you're versing another USF?
Exactly the same thing when you are against an okw / ostheer ? block line of sight
2 Feb 2016, 11:09 AM
#36
Posts: 1144 | Subs: 7
True for Ostheer, its well rounded and balanced army. We had this balanced in coh 1 and 2. The problem is in coh 2 ostheer is the only balanced army, in coh 1 us and wehr was fun to watch and the key was on tactical positioning. Instead of mirror matches, just balance out the armies...fill the gaps and the game will be alright coz "ultimate balance" never comes.
For the 222s and other light vehicles, who fires first, who misses (even worse with tanks).
mirror matches are arguably ultimate balance though. both players have the same exact tools at their disposal.
2 Feb 2016, 11:16 AM
#37
Posts: 107
I had rather a random button. vCoH had it. No reason not to have it now.
2 Feb 2016, 11:24 AM
#38
Posts: 1740
I had rather a random button. vCoH had it. No reason not to have it now.
+1, though at the current meta it would be
Allies: Random between UKF/USF/Sov
Axis: Random between OKW/Lose
It is though God by command has withdrawn every other throne.
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'
2 Feb 2016, 12:20 PM
#39
Posts: 1617
mirror matches are arguably ultimate balance though. both players have the same exact tools at their disposal.
Then hey lets remove all the factions, we only need one plus a symmetrical map.
Same tools, yeah...but not the same counters. Mortar for example...true RNG machine. You're gonna counter that with the exact same mortar in your arsenal??? Pray to hit.
Infantry fights. Couple of missed shots decide who wins or loses. Can't be controlled.
Later on;. tank battles...bounce or penetrate. Can't be controlled.
Balance is a lie. Most of the players just want a playable game with minimum to zero bugs.
If ppl wanted to play a balanced game everyone would be a chess fan.
2 Feb 2016, 15:18 PM
#40
Posts: 114
Maybe once a good healthy balance is achieved (or almost achieved) and we have a method of reporting afk players and lame trolls/flamers it might be fun to play with the idea of allowing the option for mirror matches. Personally I think there are bigger issues than this for achieving balance.
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