USF crews are a nice addition adding flavor to the game but in my opinion they are currently problematic and see other the intended use. They made some sense when USF armor was considerably weaker but make less sense now that M4 is as cost efficient or more than a PZ4...
With their repair critical ability they make AT snare weaker while being a cheaper counter to a more risky threat. Compared to the doctrinal OKW and soviet counter or the Churchill counter part they over perform.
They allow vehicles transfer across players and factions giving even specialized vehicles to factions that normally have limited or no access to.
They allow USF to bypass Pop limitations and upkeep penalties, especially for support units like AA guns or artillery.
My suggestion would be:
increase vehicle pop to 10-12. Crew with no vehicles can be refitted/removed from the map. Repair critical cost 50-60 MU and maybe take a bit more or removed completely for crews and be replaced with chance of surviving vehicle destruction at vet 1, combined with mechanism as described for "elite vehicle..".
When disembarked player does not have direct control of the crew similar to SturmTiger realod, he can only order them to embark but vehicle either does not become neutral or it can only be crewed by enemy forces.
"elite vehicles crew upgrade" gives a chance of crews to survive vehicle destruction with around half health. It also allows vehicle crew to merge into vehicles giving some experience (vet1? if they had achieved vet 1) to vehicle crew.
Redesigning USF Crews.
12 Jan 2016, 13:43 PM
#1
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
12 Jan 2016, 14:03 PM
#2
Posts: 366
Repair critical: Err, I dont see this as a major issue nor even a minor one. This just seems unnecessary and a pointless nerf. I dont see how its become suddenly OP like what?
No direct control over vehicle crew: A straight up no. One nice function I know is that a more vet crew can improve a vehicle upon re-crewing e.g I once placed a vet 3 caption in a abandon panther and the panther became a vet 2. This would also screw up every USF infantry ability to disembark vehicles further more, the Thompson upgrade in armor company would become pointless.
Pop cap: Has been said its a intended feature.
Overall, your talking about reworking the disembark ability for all US infantry and the Thompson upgrade for armor company.
The increase price for the repair critical can happen (and would be pointless) but everything else requires to be reworked as well as being such a small issue its not worth the time.
Who really has a issue with this honestly?
No direct control over vehicle crew: A straight up no. One nice function I know is that a more vet crew can improve a vehicle upon re-crewing e.g I once placed a vet 3 caption in a abandon panther and the panther became a vet 2. This would also screw up every USF infantry ability to disembark vehicles further more, the Thompson upgrade in armor company would become pointless.
Pop cap: Has been said its a intended feature.
Overall, your talking about reworking the disembark ability for all US infantry and the Thompson upgrade for armor company.
The increase price for the repair critical can happen (and would be pointless) but everything else requires to be reworked as well as being such a small issue its not worth the time.
Who really has a issue with this honestly?
12 Jan 2016, 22:30 PM
#3
Posts: 1216
When disembarked player does not have direct control of the crew similar to SturmTiger realod, he can only order them to embark but vehicle either does not become neutral or it can only be crewed by enemy forces.
This makes it effectively the same as Elite Armoured Doctrine's Emergency Repairs, though.
Personally, I think a simple improvement to the vehicle crew concept is that it just lets all your vehicles use the Soviet's Repair Vehicle ability, which allows repair when out of combat and doesn't have the crew leave. This takes out the "crew hop out to repair" tedium, yet the option is there if you want them to take points. Critical Repairs can also be done inside the vehicle.
The one difference is that repairing while inside is only possible if the vehicle has the vehicle crew inside- you cannot do this if you put in other infantry. So you can't put in Riflemen inside, and have RET and the crew repair in the meantime.
I also think that vehicle crews should be the ones using the popcap- the actual vehicles don't use popcap, but do so when non-USF units take over. I dunno if that is possible though.
Some other misc ideas: vehicles with crews can have unique upgrades like applique armour or something.
14 Jan 2016, 08:06 AM
#4
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
...
Who really has a issue with this honestly?
If you disagree with proposed changes it is fine. If you want to support your opinion with an argument pls do so but make it an argument that makes sense...
The fact that I posted this thread is evidence that I have an issue with the current use of USF crews, the fact Relic made Persing without a crew indicates they also see some problems with it...
14 Jan 2016, 08:37 AM
#5
Posts: 348
USF crews work as intended. If it isn't broken don't fix it. All the things you mentioned as issues were highlighted features in Relic Dev diaries iirc.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKlnjwzT1IruAZFb0EA-5pQMy channel where I watch games and get upset at them.
14 Jan 2016, 09:31 AM
#6
Posts: 403
USF crews work as intended. If it isn't broken don't fix it. All the things you mentioned as issues were highlighted features in Relic Dev diaries iirc.
Major Conscript user.
Sometimes NKVD Commander.
Sometimes NKVD Commander.
14 Jan 2016, 09:37 AM
#7
Posts: 17887 | Subs: 8
USF crews work as intended. If it isn't broken don't fix it. All the things you mentioned as issues were highlighted features in Relic Dev diaries iirc.
And /thread.
There is no issue when every "concern" is intended.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
14 Jan 2016, 10:02 AM
#8
Posts: 393
Repair critical is incredibly shitty design though. A sherman runs over a teller and unless you're right next to it with AT it can just get away for pretty much free? How is that fair when other factions get punished extremely hard for making the same poor desicions you got away with just because of some completely unnecessary and gimmicky ability?
sig by tricky 
14 Jan 2016, 10:07 AM
#9
Posts: 17887 | Subs: 8
Repair critical is incredibly shitty design though. A sherman runs over a teller and unless you're right next to it with AT it can just get away for pretty much free? How is that fair when other factions get punished extremely hard for making the same poor desicions you got away with just because of some completely unnecessary and gimmicky ability?
If you are unable to capitalize on your mine, why should you?
If you aren't there with AT already, it would escape anyway.
This is army design, most mobile army in the game at the price of having cardboard boxes with guns for tanks.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
14 Jan 2016, 10:56 AM
#10
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
...
This is army design, most mobile army in the game at the price of having cardboard boxes with guns for tanks.
M4 are equal or most cost efficient then P4. Read O.P. again...the medium armor balance has changed, USF got better mines from infantry while retaining the superior vehicle mines, it is time that the design intended of the crew should also change..
Not paying upkeep, pop, transfer, training of squads for/with support vehicles was not design intended..
...
If you are unable to capitalize on your mine, why should you?
...
Only it allot easier for USF to counter the engine damage (from mines or other) than any other faction.
And even if there is pak or R.W. near the mines a Sherman can pop smoke repair critical (cheaper and faster than a mine) and drive off...The pak/RW may or may not be able to collide with the tank behind smoke...
Repair critical is cheaper and faster than most things that causes criticals and while being available to most USF vehicles it performs far superior that similar doctrinal abilities.
It can stay to specialized units like assault engineers if needed...
...If it isn't broken don't fix it...
things do not need to broken to be "fixed", a value of a proposed changed has only to do if it for the better or not...
14 Jan 2016, 11:59 AM
#11
Posts: 17887 | Subs: 8
M4 are equal or most cost efficient then P4. Read O.P. again...the medium armor balance has changed, USF got better mines from infantry while retaining the superior vehicle mines, it is time that the design intended of the crew should also change..
Well, 57mm and bazooka isn't equal to PaK and shreck, so you're wrong.
Even with pen buff, M4 is still inferior to P4, its better vs inf, but overall its inferior.
Not paying upkeep, pop, transfer, training of squads for/with support vehicles was not design intended..
It was, as it was already explained by relic more then once.
Only it allot easier for USF to counter the engine damage (from mines or other) than any other faction.
And even if there is pak or R.W. near the mines a Sherman can pop smoke repair critical (cheaper and faster than a mine) and drive off...The pak/RW may or may not be able to collide with the tank behind smoke...
Repair critical is cheaper and faster than most things that causes criticals and while being available to most USF vehicles it performs far superior that similar doctrinal abilities.
It can stay to specialized units like assault engineers if needed...
things do not need to broken to be "fixed", a value of a proposed changed has only to do if it for the better or not...
This is where you're utterly wrong.
Yes, USF counters engine damage, this is the theme of USF, most mobile force, this translates to them being less vulnerable to snares then other armies at the cost of not having anything that would remotely remind heavy tank(inb4 pershing-it still loses to panther despite costing as much as IS-2) and is fully intended design.
And yes, things need to be broken to be fixed, otherwise you're just making a storm in the glass of water for no reason "just because you don't like something", not because its imbalanced, which is the case of this thread.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
14 Jan 2016, 12:45 PM
#12
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
Well, 57mm and bazooka isn't equal to PaK and shreck, so you're wrong.
Even with pen buff, M4 is still inferior to P4, its better vs inf, but overall its inferior.
Read understand respond...
I wrote that Sherman is more cost efficient not superior...
Pak and Shreck are irrelevant when comparing the Tanks them selves. If you want bring other stuff in the debate you should compare the whole faction...
It was, as it was already explained by relic more then once.
No it has not, even if they did allot has changes since USF was released and it is time to change that also.
This is where you're utterly wrong.
Yes, USF counters engine damage, this is the theme of USF, most mobile force, this translates to them being less vulnerable to snares then other armies at .....
No it I am not and it does not translate to that. USF there being mobile force translates to to riflemen being superior to Axis infantry while being versatile and have some of the strongest light vehicle play. Further more I did not claimed that repair critical must go, I said that if it stay it should be more expensive and take longer, as I have explained it currently OP compared to most doctrinal abilities while being available at stock...
And yes, things need to be broken to be fixed, otherwise you're just making a storm in the glass of water for no reason "just because you don't like something", not because its imbalanced, which is the case of this thread.
No they do not be broken, broken things get fixed via hotfixs, things that can be improved are improved via patches.
I can't really see why you describe one person giving his opinion as "making a storm in the glass of water for no reason". I have made suggestions in civilized manner on something that in my opinion will improve the game, so there is no storm and there is reason. The whole reason behind a forum is exactly, that so that people can give the opinion on how the game can be improved...
14 Jan 2016, 17:03 PM
#13
Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1
I will say I would like to see repair crit not work after a mine strike. In that case you should have to fully repair the tank to get the tread/engine back.
Otherwise you are only giving the Wehr player 5 seconds to capitalize on having a well placed mine, and that really is not fair. That is basically the time it takes to turn the pak to face the tank, and may be get a chance to fire once.
Otherwise you are only giving the Wehr player 5 seconds to capitalize on having a well placed mine, and that really is not fair. That is basically the time it takes to turn the pak to face the tank, and may be get a chance to fire once.
14 Jan 2016, 17:20 PM
#14
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
Vehicle crews (like a lot of stuff in the game) should have just been something everyone has or nobody has. Features that allow factions to be more mobile than others is good, but giving an additional tactical option to one faction when the enemy gets none is just bad design.
If you wanted to keep vehicle crews the way I would do it is if a tank dies with vet 1+ the crew jumps out and you can "merge" it into a new tank giving that tank the veteran crews vet level. Or just use the crew for repairs.
If you wanted to keep vehicle crews the way I would do it is if a tank dies with vet 1+ the crew jumps out and you can "merge" it into a new tank giving that tank the veteran crews vet level. Or just use the crew for repairs.
14 Jan 2016, 19:09 PM
#15
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
So Thompsons for RE or Riflemans 
D: ?
First of all, whenever you think of a suggestion, take into account the possibility of it been implemented on the game. Besides repair critical* it's too much hustle for little gain.
"All the things you mentioned as issues were highlighted features in Relic Dev diaries iirc."
*Repair critical: it needs to actually take 5s instead of 0.5s by just touching the tank.
D: ?First of all, whenever you think of a suggestion, take into account the possibility of it been implemented on the game. Besides repair critical* it's too much hustle for little gain.
"All the things you mentioned as issues were highlighted features in Relic Dev diaries iirc."
*Repair critical: it needs to actually take 5s instead of 0.5s by just touching the tank.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
14 Jan 2016, 19:49 PM
#16
Posts: 1891
Vehicle crews (like a lot of stuff in the game) should have just been something everyone has or nobody has. Features that allow factions to be more mobile than others is good, but giving an additional tactical option to one faction when the enemy gets none is just bad design.
If you wanted to keep vehicle crews the way I would do it is if a tank dies with vet 1+ the crew jumps out and you can "merge" it into a new tank giving that tank the veteran crews vet level. Or just use the crew for repairs.
I personally kind of agree with you but I wouldn't call vehicle crews a tactical option, but mobile repairing is. IMO soviets have doctrinally have it, okw kinda has it, and Ost doesn't. Ost Halftrack could use a repair upgrade that has an aura, maybe same for soviet HT. But vehicle crews should still be more effective and ubiquitous at "mobile repairing" because USF.
The Fascisti Will Pay.
14 Jan 2016, 20:48 PM
#17
7 Posts: 1664
Reapir critical is fast, but decrewing, repairing and recrewing vehicles has WAY too many delays in the process where you can't even issue the proper command due to invisible cooldowns on de/recrew and is overall a finicky system that makes armor preservation pretty dang hard as USF since their vehicles have low health and armor to counteract vehicle crew repairs. I meanow often do you see vet three Shermans?
If crews were removed, USF armor would have to be more durable to compensate which would overall be a buff to the faction.
If crews were removed, USF armor would have to be more durable to compensate which would overall be a buff to the faction.
14 Jan 2016, 21:13 PM
#18
Posts: 278
I will say I would like to see repair crit not work after a mine strike. In that case you should have to fully repair the tank to get the tread/engine back.
Otherwise you are only giving the Wehr player 5 seconds to capitalize on having a well placed mine, and that really is not fair. That is basically the time it takes to turn the pak to face the tank, and may be get a chance to fire once.
I don't really play USF anymore, but my impression is that one hit is often all that's needed with a pak. TWP after a mine and that's a dead Sherman, usually. I'm not sure that repair critical is a great trade off for the Sherman's vulnerability, but it seems like a rational one. Implementing this seems like it would require complementary buffs somewhere, especially considering USF's lackluster late game. (At least it's reliably lackluster at my level). What buff would you give, assuming you agree that one would be necessary?
14 Jan 2016, 21:28 PM
#19
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
Should be two hits, I'm pretty sure Tellers do 400 damage and leave mediums with 240 left.
I don't really play USF anymore, but my impression is that one hit is often all that's needed with a pak. TWP after a mine and that's a dead Sherman, usually. I'm not sure that repair critical is a great trade off for the Sherman's vulnerability, but it seems like a rational one. Implementing this seems like it would require complementary buffs somewhere, especially considering USF's lackluster late game. (At least it's reliably lackluster at my level). What buff would you give, assuming you agree that one would be necessary?
So Schreck PGs though, they will make Shermans dead for sure after around 27 range I think.
14 Jan 2016, 21:39 PM
#20
Posts: 278
Should be two hits, I'm pretty sure Tellers do 400 damage and leave mediums with 240 left.
So Schreck PGs though, they will make Shermans dead for sure after around 27 range I think.
Target weak point stuns, though, so if you can pull it off you usually get the second hit, assuming I recall correctly.
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