Calliopes

The only problem i have with calliopes is the durability, 640 HP with good armor ( by good armor, i mean immune to light vehicule damage, like 222, luchs, etc, cause i like chase Katyusha with 222 ) and the fact that you can just decrew them after fire to save popcap during reload, reload should stop when decrew ( who is reloading if crew is not inside ? xD ), same with priest, but thats not the subject

Ostheer has no chance against them and they wipe team weapons like crazy.

Ostheer has no chance against them and they wipe team weapons like crazy.

Or, stop blobbing shrecks?

Or, stop blobbing shrecks?

This is amazing! Ty

I totally deserved those wipes as I did blob, but Ostheer teamweapons still get rekt either way by callis if he doesn't blob.

This is amazing! Ty

I totally deserved those wipes as I did blob, but Ostheer teamweapons still get rekt either way by callis if he doesn't blob.

Actually Ostheer didn't do much except spamming Panzerwerfer (he had 3.)
and my Calliopes were all directed to your blob

Usf cannot lay defensive mines. It needs higher survivability.

This is a dumb argument. USF has non-doctrinal mines with the M20 and doctrinal infantry-laid mines.

The reason people are arguing against nerfing the Calliope is in order to deal with Axis blobs, specifically volks-schreck blob. But Axis has at least as big of a problem dealing with blobs. Personally I struggle much more against infantry blobs as OKW than as any other faction because (surprise!) OKW has only a crappy, doctrinal MG. Stuka su Fuss is kind of a kludge, it can work but you have to get at least a little lucky. Luchs is good but will go down quick against 2-3 zooks.

Personally I'm inclined to tone down rocket artillery across the board while giving OKW a non-doctrinal MG and increasing AOE suppression for all MG types. If the point is to punish blobbing, better to do it via suppression rather than a clumsy squad-delete button.

Pwerfer must be up close to properly wipe squads. come to close and you are one shot killed by pretty much anything other than small arms fire. Yes you can instantly move it back afterwards but you are still at risk while firing. They enemy can also send in any vehicle and hunt down the Pwerfer and kill it easily.

The Calliopie on the other hand can literally have LOS on the enemy, wipe them, and walk away unscathed. If the enemy try to rush youre calliopee with anything smaller than a p4, you can simply reverse yourself away taking a couple hits and still have plenty of time to have AT guns and infantry come snare the enemy vehicle before your calliopie dies.

You can counter Pwerfer will very cheap light vehicles, you can MAYBE counter calliope with a P4 or higher.
heck you can kill pwerfer with calli but not other way around.

And you say armor is worthless. Perhaps you play to much 4v4 where you can hide behind 3 other allies.
Survivability for all forms of artillery is huge. Especially in 1v1 and 2v2.

Pwerfer can squad wipe with the single burst he got.

Calliope will wipe but not with the first salvo (unless you're unlucky), sure it will wipe with the 3 salvos.

Pwerfer counter by light vehicule ? If you let your Pwerfer being destroy AT YOUR BASE by a light vehicule, you deserv to loose it


Armor is worthless, perhaps you should learn insta counter like loiter and strafe that one shot sherman.

I just think its total BS that the Calliope fires mini nukes with massive wipe potential while katyusha can never wipe anything on its first bombardment? katyusha had 132mm rockets, calliope had 114mm. Where is the frigging logic?

Pwerfer can squad wipe with the single burst he got.

Calliope will wipe but not with the first salvo (unless you're unlucky), sure it will wipe with the 3 salvos.

Pwerfer counter by light vehicule ? If you let your Pwerfer being destroy AT YOUR BASE by a light vehicule, you deserv to loose it


Armor is worthless, perhaps you should learn insta counter like loiter and strafe that one shot sherman.

yes you do get people who will rush a cheap T70 or stuart into your base to one shot your pwerfer and retreat. Ostheer has many ways to defend against this including mines and ATGs and tanks if you have any, but light vehicles can still slip past your defenses and if they do, youve lost your pwerfer.
As soviets you can also call in partisan tank hunters from ambient building to quickly finish off both pwerfers and stukas.



In comparison, the calliopie will only be killed by an equivalently (nearly) expensive vehicle that requires you to first get to the vehicle, survive long enough to shoot 4 times at it (assuming they all hit) and hopefully be able to get out of their alive. I dont think i would say having to sacrifice an equally expensive unit to kill something would be considered a "counter".

Stuka loiter or strafe you need the right commander, LOS on your target, and the hope that your enemy isnt paying attention. Probably your best bet but if it fails, youve wasted your munitions.
If you are scared of your calliopie being killed by the 200 + 80 munitions loiter stuka + recon (which cant be called in your base) then simply hop out of your calliopie and laugh as they fly over you without firing at you (stuka loiter only targets vehicles now).

Yes armor is harder to deal with on mobile artillery.

Oh and the first salvo his vet 0 calliopie wiped 2 full health gren squads, the third finished the nearly out of range third gren squad.
As i mentioned, they were leaving my base (they were full health.

Pwerfer can squad wipe with the single burst he got.

Calliope will wipe but not with the first salvo (unless you're unlucky), sure it will wipe with the 3 salvos.

The amount of rockets fired is practically the same on the 1st barrage (i can never remember if it's 12 or 10 for the Werfer)

yes you do get people who will rush a cheap T70 or stuart into your base to one shot your pwerfer and retreat. Ostheer has many ways to defend against this including mines and ATGs and tanks if you have any, but light vehicles can still slip past your defenses and if they do, youve lost your pwerfer.
As soviets you can also call in partisan tank hunters from ambient building to quickly finish off both pwerfers and stukas.



...

oh you mean 70 fuel cheap light vehicles freshly made just to go after 85 fuel unit which needs 2-4 shots to kill?

or are you talking about veteran light vehicles you had since mid game?

which will probably die en route or certainly die on its way out either way.




No non frontline unit deserves to have wiping potential of pwerfer or calliope. health is not even the secondary stat to consider here. its at best tertiary.

oh you mean 70 fuel cheap light vehicles freshly made just to go after 85 fuel unit which needs 2-4 shots to kill?

or are you talking about veteran light vehicles you had since mid game?

which will probably die en route or certainly die on its way out either way.




No non frontline unit deserves to have wiping potential of pwerfer or calliope. health is not even the secondary stat to consider here. its at best tertiary.

Im not saying it's easy to counter pwerfer. I'm saying it easy to counter pwerfer COMPARED TO the calliope. It's far easier and a lot less at stack to try to counter pwerfer than it is calli. You can kill pwerfer with artillery if you want with no risk.

And I never said pwerfer was balanced either. Both need less wiping potential as you said.

I disagree that survivability of a non frontline isn't important. Unit preservation is always important. Every unit should be counter able. The reason you see so many complaints about heavies is because there seems to be no counter (even tho there are). What would you say is the most cost effective counter to an armoured mobile artillery unit?

Once again, Take Calliope, We USF will be happy to trade it for the Panzerwerfer.

Tip : A good player will use a Pwerfer and then send him back to base we're he is unrreachable, so your Tank armor and tank health argument is worthless

I would gladly take the Calliope over Pwerfer! Please get a job at Lelic and make it happen

You're right that good Pwerfer play means sending back to base. But don't forget that it has to come forward when firing and is vulnerable then. A good allied player will be ready for this and have a flank planned. So your "Panzerwerfer is sometimes in base" argument is "worthless" because it sometimes isn't and can die to one shot.

Plus if it's far back you may miss a great opportunity 'cos you have to wait 5-10 seconds for it to get in place.

This is a dumb argument. USF has non-doctrinal mines with the M20 and doctrinal infantry-laid mines.

The reason people are arguing against nerfing the Calliope is in order to deal with Axis blobs, specifically volks-schreck blob. But Axis has at least as big of a problem dealing with blobs. Personally I struggle much more against infantry blobs as OKW than as any other faction because (surprise!) OKW has only a crappy, doctrinal MG. Stuka su Fuss is kind of a kludge, it can work but you have to get at least a little lucky. Luchs is good but will go down quick against 2-3 zooks.

Personally I'm inclined to tone down rocket artillery across the board while giving OKW a non-doctrinal MG and increasing AOE suppression for all MG types. If the point is to punish blobbing, better to do it via suppression rather than a clumsy squad-delete button.

My mistake for using my smart phone too post as it often results in shorter post that often fail to convey my point due to the hassle of typing on a phone.

Yes I am aware m20 lays mines.
No I was not aware Calliope and doctrinal mines were in same doctrine.

What I should have said is Usf do not have access to cheap mines like some factions nor do they access to infantry laid anti vehicle mines rather they must tech to obtain access to m20, a unit which also needs to be upgraded to be viable.

Usf also do not have as much defensive capabilities as the axis faction. At guns are rarely seen in pairs for usf and the Jackson is hardly a defensive unit which leaves only a sherman to protect the Calliope.

Usf at nades are also rather crap.

If a panther, vetted piv or a couple of pumas get behind allies lines unseen they can literally kill all light armour and escape..

I have no opinion on Calliope being Op or Up as yet but it certainly need higher survivability than other artillery units given the unit composition and strength and weaknesses of each faction.

As to increasing Aos of suppression for all mgs that will just lead to mg meta which is shit..

Making mg34 non doc would be ok as long as it is not t0, and not the same as mg42. That would be batshit Op.

I would gladly take the Calliope over Pwerfer! Please get a job at Lelic and make it happen

You're right that good Pwerfer play means sending back to base. But don't forget that it has to come forward when firing and is vulnerable then. A good allied player will be ready for this and have a flank planned. So your "Panzerwerfer is sometimes in base" argument is "worthless" because it sometimes isn't and can die to one shot.

Plus if it's far back you may miss a great opportunity 'cos you have to wait 5-10 seconds for it to get in place.

There's something called a "mine". Try to succeed with your ambush against a few of them...

It is very simple.
No mobile arty should wipe weapons without chances to move away.
Katy, Stuka leave a small window to move out.
Calliope leaves really, really small window for this.
PzWefer leaves no window to move out crew weapons.

I just think its total BS that the Calliope fires mini nukes with massive wipe potential while katyusha can never wipe anything on its first bombardment? katyusha had 132mm rockets, calliope had 114mm. Where is the frigging logic?

Coz Relic like to do historical video, but not balance game with some historical knolodje MVGame.

The commander provokes 1919 blobbs