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Balance Preview Patchnotes

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30 Nov 2015, 09:15 AM
#1081
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1653

Wow...there's almost 1100 posts on this. Damn.
Anyway, these changes are all bringing coh2 in a balanced direction. Relic is willing to change/sacrifice initial faction ideas for balance which, for gameplay, is a good thing. This is an opinion and yours may differ.

Anyway, for the people above arguing about vet 5 OKW being bad because it takes so long to get or whatever. F1sh, for example, makes the argument that keeping vet units alive to vet 4-5 should give you bonuses. Sure. But when you look at it from the perspective of, say, a USF player whose rifles are stuck at vet 3.

I've had games where, at most, only 1 infantry squad is wiped the whole game from each side until the late game. Both players had equal unit survivability, but late game I get boned because my OKW opponent has extra bonuses for his soldiers while I do not. It is, frankly, stupid, for one player to be rewarded more than the other in this manner.


The balance is indeed finaly getting some shape. I did some games against Aerohank in a 1v1 and OKW isn't OP. With normal fuel income and stuff your tanks come out the same time to 1-2 minutes later than the allied tanks. Although OKW tanks get way better in the long run because of their vet it doesn't mean that they're unbeatable. I think it's more about to make the OKW player missplay to take a tank/unit out of position.
30 Nov 2015, 09:27 AM
#1082
avatar of Kozokus

Posts: 301

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Nov 2015, 08:41 AMKatitof


Also, while there were imbalances(eldar vs terminators being most obvious one), they weren't as severe in general as you make them seem.



You are right i made the Grim Dark Futur grimmer that it is/was

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Nov 2015, 08:43 AMwuff


Balance is of course very important, but it is not the only factor for a game to become a successful esports title.


I agree. Like katitof said, the FunFactor is also crucial (as heartstone proved us, a TCG with inferiors mechanics than MTG, ForceOfWill and DuelOfChampions, but superior gameplay, fun and interface). But i see COH2 a little bit less fun than DOW2 (but still vastly funnier than SC2) Surprisingly the GrimDarkFutur seems more colorful than the 2WW XD.
For me the balance is NECESSARY but insuffisant. Fortunatly COH2 is an extremly pleasant game to play, even if it is a little bit too punishing for new players.

The new balance on OKW is regretfull but understandable. I wish the equation of the ressource manipulation where simple enough to balance it easyly.

Koz.
30 Nov 2015, 09:34 AM
#1083
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Nov 2015, 09:27 AMKozokus

heartstone proved us, a TCG with inferiors mechanics than MTG

Heartstone isn't TCG. Hex is TCG.
Its a card game, but its not TCG as, you know, you can't trade cards.
Subtle thing, but makes for a world of difference.
30 Nov 2015, 09:52 AM
#1084
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3597 | Subs: 1



The balance is indeed finaly getting some shape. I did some games against Aerohank in a 1v1 and OKW isn't OP. With normal fuel income and stuff your tanks come out the same time to 1-2 minutes later than the allied tanks. Although OKW tanks get way better in the long run because of their vet it doesn't mean that they're unbeatable. I think it's more about to make the OKW player missplay to take a tank/unit out of position.


Lol, the exact description of unbalance.

More powerful unit getting even more powerful than your with vet available at the same time than yours
You can do nothing except waiting your opponent to do a mistake to win.
30 Nov 2015, 10:00 AM
#1085
avatar of cr4wler

Posts: 1164

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Nov 2015, 09:52 AMEsxile


Lol, the exact description of unbalance.

More powerful unit getting even more powerful than your with vet available at the same time than yours
You can do nothing except waiting your opponent to do a mistake to win.


Wait, are you talikng about okw tanks? Because it sounds like you're talking about allied infantry. Or chruchills.
30 Nov 2015, 10:11 AM
#1086
avatar of Kozokus

Posts: 301

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Nov 2015, 09:34 AMKatitof

Heartstone isn't TCG. Hex is TCG.
Its a card game, but its not TCG as, you know, you can't trade cards.
Subtle thing, but makes for a world of difference.


Ouch! you got me. Well, they are all Collectible Card Games :p

Hey dont deviate from the subject!

Btw, i think i will join the side of thoses who would prefer an AI upgrade on the Volks and a ATgrenade/Shrek eventually.
I also agree with lemon, the Sturmpioneer action box is getting crowded and looks more and more like a swissknife unit. I am skeptical withe the stun grenade also. what is the true point of this ability? I rarely see it used.

Koz.
30 Nov 2015, 10:35 AM
#1087
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3597 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Nov 2015, 10:00 AMcr4wler


Wait, are you talikng about okw tanks? Because it sounds like you're talking about allied infantry. Or chruchills.


didn't know infantry cost fuel. BTW, OKW has 300mp units available from T0 building and Ostheer HMG42 hardcounter to any infantry unit type also from T0 building.
30 Nov 2015, 10:53 AM
#1088
avatar of cr4wler

Posts: 1164

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Nov 2015, 10:35 AMEsxile


didn't know infantry cost fuel. BTW, OKW has 300mp units available from T0 building and Ostheer HMG42 hardcounter to any infantry unit type also from T0 building.


Are you talking about the mgs that get killed by the infantry by just a-moving at them from the front? Or crawling up to throw nades? Thought so.

Also you didnt say anything about fuel in your post, you gave your definition of unbalanced, which incidentally fits mainline allied infantry perfectly.

Whether this means that allied inf is OP or your definition is flawed, i leave that up to you.
30 Nov 2015, 11:02 AM
#1089
avatar of jackill2611

Posts: 246

War... War never changes. And threads like this never changes.
XXX: But your Tanks are so OP!
YYY: So is your infantry!
XXX: But inf. need upgrades!
YYY: Because of asymmetrical balance
blah-blah-blah.

Do you guys want to have constructive dialog sometime? You just talk while not listen to your opponent.
30 Nov 2015, 11:02 AM
#1090
avatar of jackill2611

Posts: 246

And then you get a shock when relic don't count your arguments.
30 Nov 2015, 11:15 AM
#1091
avatar of some one

Posts: 935

Does anyone know Ostheer sniper still has 80 HP ?
30 Nov 2015, 11:51 AM
#1092
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1653

And then you get a shock when relic don't count your arguments.


+1
30 Nov 2015, 13:16 PM
#1093
avatar of Kozokus

Posts: 301

And then you get a shock when relic don't count your arguments.


I think Relic™ listen the community more than you think ^^
Fortunately for us they discard most of our argumentation with a proper overview of the game and ingame numbers and statistics.

Still, i am happy to play a game that can make a 1100+posts thread on a single preview balance patchnote, not an add-on! just a preview...of a patchnote.
I think this is something they can be proud of.
(As a comparaison, take a jump on the forum of the recent M&MH7 : a large part of the threads are discussion about bugs and bugs)
30 Nov 2015, 13:19 PM
#1094
avatar of Swift

Posts: 2723 | Subs: 1

Does anyone know Ostheer sniper still has 80 HP ?

82 I believe, so he can survive mortar explosions in one piece.
30 Nov 2015, 13:36 PM
#1095
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3597 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Nov 2015, 10:53 AMcr4wler


Are you talking about the mgs that get killed by the infantry by just a-moving at them from the front? Or crawling up to throw nades? Thought so.

Also you didnt say anything about fuel in your post, you gave your definition of unbalanced, which incidentally fits mainline allied infantry perfectly.

Whether this means that allied inf is OP or your definition is flawed, i leave that up to you.


Show me a recent replay of blob of Rifle/IS/cons being able to a-move and crawl from the far end of mg42 fire area till grenade range. Let's assume blob start with 3 units closely packed.

I didn't say anything about fuel? So you need a brain to understand gameplay and game mechanism. Give you a hint, T0 and T1 give anything to all faction to do infantry fight. You have all the keys right from the beginning and you don't need to wait for your opponent mistake to win it.

Fighting a OKW pz4 or panther with a single sherman isn't equal. As Iron Emperor says himself, your hope is on OKW player mistake to lose it. This isn't balance.

But Jackill is right, speaking with you is a nonsense from the beginning.
30 Nov 2015, 14:24 PM
#1096
avatar of cr4wler

Posts: 1164

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Nov 2015, 13:36 PMEsxile


Show me a recent replay of blob of Rifle/IS/cons being able to a-move and crawl from the far end of mg42 fire area till grenade range. Let's assume blob start with 3 units closely packed.

I didn't say anything about fuel? So you need a brain to understand gameplay and game mechanism. Give you a hint, T0 and T1 give anything to all faction to do infantry fight. You have all the keys right from the beginning and you don't need to wait for your opponent mistake to win it.

Fighting a OKW pz4 or panther with a single sherman isn't equal. As Iron Emperor says himself, your hope is on OKW player mistake to lose it. This isn't balance.

But Jackill is right, speaking with you is a nonsense from the beginning.


https://youtu.be/zEB-cDQmr8c is 5 minutes ago recent enough? rifles had standard formation (as in, select blob, move order).

and yes, infantry does not cost any fuel. again, you said if a unit is straight up better than your opponents unit and arrives at the same time, it is OP. that description fits at least rifles and infantry sections perfectly, since they obviously outperform Grenadiers by a significant margin.

in your example, if you simply replace the sherman with a jackson, suddenly the fight becomes way more "equal" as well.

fact of the matter is, you don't want to hear an opinion that doesn't fit yours. especially when it's backed up by facts.
30 Nov 2015, 14:29 PM
#1097
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1653

There will probably be a bug or something then, usually it almost insta pinned the units.
30 Nov 2015, 14:32 PM
#1098
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

There will probably be a bug or something then, usually it almost insta pinned the units.

Because he advanced near cover as well as the squads were somewhat tight, but still spread enough.

and yes, infantry does not cost any fuel.

You might want to recheck where allied nades come from.
30 Nov 2015, 14:38 PM
#1099
avatar of cr4wler

Posts: 1164

There will probably be a bug or something then, usually it almost insta pinned the units.


reproduction rate 100%... if you think this is not what usually happens, then i doubt you ever play ostheer.

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Nov 2015, 14:32 PMKatitof

Because he advanced near cover as well as the squads were somewhat tight, but still spread enough.


as mentioned in the video description and here: this is the standard distribution pattern that you get when you select your blob and then give a move order without ordering individual squads.


You might want to recheck where allied nades come from.


besides the point, like the whole fuel discussion was from the start.

30 Nov 2015, 14:43 PM
#1100
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1653

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Nov 2015, 14:38 PMcr4wler


reproduction rate 100%... if you think this is not what usually happens, then i doubt you ever play ostheer.



as mentioned in the video description and here: this is the standard distribution pattern that you get when you select your blob and then give a move order without ordering individual squads.



besides the point, like the whole fuel discussion was from the start.



I've played enough ostheer, probably the last 2-3 months I don't play them as much as I did.
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