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Balance Preview Patchnotes

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23 Nov 2015, 12:41 PM
#681
avatar of Rollo

Posts: 738

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Nov 2015, 11:44 AMJunaid


Not quite my friend. I've done the numbers on this:




1: UKF need to spend fuel for T2 and then another 400mp+45 fuel on upgrades

2: you don't even mention the fact IS cost 280mp per squad

3: ost BP1 costs 40 fuel

4: it's silly to include the soviet AT nade in the comparison when the faust is free

Ost spend less fuel and MP for their general infantry, add in CAS LMG cheese and the match up is suddenly extremely unbalanced
23 Nov 2015, 13:08 PM
#682
avatar of Cultist_kun

Posts: 295 | Subs: 1

I like how some ppl acting like "Hey look faction A has something, while faction B don't have it! Who cares that faction B has something different".

Also I loled, CAS and LMG cheese, with cheap mainline inf. Who cares that grens cost more to reinforce then IS, who cares that CAS planes not only easy dodgable with all nerfs but also can be shotted down easily, who cares that IS blobs with double LMG and 3 vets, literally best inf in the game, who somehow can be killed only by vet 5 obersoldaten.

AXIS OP RELIC PLZ NERF. I think its time for some ppl to upgrade their game, since there were few patches you know.
23 Nov 2015, 14:04 PM
#683
avatar of devlish
Patrion 14

Posts: 243



hey I was able to call-in a KT in the balance mod. Build all three tiers and choose a doctrine. After you have choosen a doctrin, you will see the KT call-in icon on the list with the commander abilitys. :)


Thanks, i dont remember if i had a commander chosen when i tried to call the KT, but i already don't like the fact that you are forced to choose a commander in order to call-in a KT.
23 Nov 2015, 14:09 PM
#684
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 992

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Nov 2015, 14:04 PMdevlish


Thanks, i dont remember if i had a commander chosen when i tried to call the KT, but i already don't like the fact that you are forced to choose a commander in order to call-in a KT.


Bad OKW design. All they need, have non-doctrinal. :)
23 Nov 2015, 15:08 PM
#685
avatar of ATCF
Donator 33

Posts: 587



In the preview OKW teching costs are pretty much similiar to the USF teching costs. I personally don't blob schrecks and rarely build them, because good players know how to deal with them. In addition I rather invest munitions into mines and grenades, while letting my raketenwerfer deal with tanks.



The main advantage of AT infantry is that you cant flank them, im sure your raketenwerfer sometimes gets flanked and you wish you had a panzerscheck, unless you plant mines in the flanks and the enemy tanks become easy targets for you...
23 Nov 2015, 15:11 PM
#686
avatar of Densha Marx

Posts: 327



He is mad that clumped up falls get one shotted by a 90 mm main gun from a heavy tank. I wouldn't even quote him in the future if I were you.

By that same logic a single shot from medium/heavy tanks should be enough to turn vehicles like M20/scout car/halftracks into twisted balls of metal with no chance of escape, but I don't see you complaining about it.

The person you quoted had a perfectly valid point that if Relic nerfs one-shotting/overperforming units/abilities in every patch and says that serves the point of "allowing the opposing player time to react", that should be the case with the Pershing/KT/whatever BS one-shots as well.

But no, "l2p when I have big guns" is more valid than asking for reasonable game balance of course.
23 Nov 2015, 15:11 PM
#687
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7



All aboard the homogenization train CHOO CHOO.


homgenization is if you give volks a faust.

This is balancing unit performance for it cost and counterparts. That like saying we want pershing to cost 150 fuel because we dont want to give it same cost as tiger and still there were more pershing produced
23 Nov 2015, 15:12 PM
#688
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7



Ostheer have shrecks on 4 men, squishy, easy to wipe and costly to reinforce squad. 1 T-34 hit can kill half of the squad.

OKW have shreck on 6 men squad, hard to wipe, hard to hit with tanks because of vet buffs. It lead to tanks need to run away with their poor pathfinding from volks with A move because they can't hit them while shreck hit the tank 80 % of time even at max distance.


At least correct your numbers, t34/76 never hit infantry and volks have 5 men not 6
23 Nov 2015, 15:17 PM
#689
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 830


By that same logic a single shot from 75 or 88mm German gun should be enough to turn vehicles like M20 and halftracks into twisted balls of metal, but I don't see you complaining about it.

The person you quoted had a perfectly valid point that if Relic nerfs one-shotting/overperforming units/abilities in every patch and says that serves the point of "allowing the opposing player time to react", that should be the case with the Pershing/KT/whatever BS one-shots as well.

But no, "l2p when I have big guns" is more valid than understanding reasonable game balance of course.


Thank you for trying to put more essence into my comment, I totally appreciate it. The person does have a point, yet the blame does not ly with the Pershing, neither with its shells. The blame lies with squad spacing, nothing the Pershing nor any other tank should suffer for or can do anything about.

I love how you throw the l2p out there, when I have said nothing that relates to l2p. Further more, you seem to mistake my comment for something that offers l2p value instead of understanding reasonable balance aspects of games. You couldn't have been further from the truth. I simply stated that the point he was trying to make can't be blamed on the Pershing one shotting stuff simply because it is part of a problem and, the pershing itself, is not the problem.

Perhaps next time, I should spread the words of Learn2Think and Learn2Comprehend.

:foreveralone:
23 Nov 2015, 15:18 PM
#690
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Nov 2015, 08:20 AMEsxile


Yes your right.

Volks Shreck at 60 ammo
Ober LMG34 at 120 ammo
Falls STGs at 60 ammo

Reduce the flack-hT armor by half and add a skirt upgrade on the flak-ht to match the existant value, 60 ammo

Remove the free cannon on the shrewer HQ and make it 120 ammo upgrade

Remove the free healing on the Regiment HQ and make it 60 ammo upgrade

Remove the free repair station on the Mechanized HA and make it 60 ammo upgrade

And we're done with the shreck spammability, with in the same time, balancing OKW abilities with other factions ones.


What , why ?

I didnt say anything about increasing cost of munny in other OKW units.

I sad that volks should have option to choose between 1 shreck and some AI upgrade. I think you misunderstood me. Because right now i spam shrecks because i cant improve my volks anyelse and becuase they are core infantry i will have at least 3 of them
23 Nov 2015, 15:22 PM
#691
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Nov 2015, 08:18 AMZyllen


is their a reason for this?



Yes becuase unit price should relfect it performance.

And right now ostheer puma is as good as OKW puma and okw cost 10 fuel less for no reason (they get normal fuel income)

Also luchs is as good as all other light tanks so it should cost like them - 70 fuel

And JP4 is too good for it cost too. It is best TD and its only 15 fuel more expensive than su85 while it defeats it by a huge margin.

And flaktrack is right now a rathre shitty in comparison with other halftracks so i think minor cost decrease would be good
23 Nov 2015, 15:30 PM
#692
avatar of _GarbageMan_

Posts: 83

So with this "balance" preview...what's stopping axis from schecking blobbing even harder and getting an even earlier panther to mop up? Now that they have both an equal amount of gas and schrecks without any really changes to tier structure?
23 Nov 2015, 15:48 PM
#693
avatar of broodwarjc

Posts: 798

So I had an idea to somewhat keep the theme of OKW being late war resource strained Germany and slightly slow down the spam of OKW tanks. What if OKW Panther, P4, JP4 costed a little more fuel(like 10-20 each)? This would slow down their arrival and instead of simulating late war Germany resource penalties through actual less resources; it costs more in game due to the inefficiency of such resources. For example late war Germany needed fuel and resorted to using less efficient coal fuel. This would translate into the OKW Panther needing more fuel than a Wher Panther due to it its inefficient fuel source. This way you don't over cost the OKW teching, which could lock some units out of usefulness, and you retain the theme of resource strained through another method.
23 Nov 2015, 15:59 PM
#694
avatar of Dullahan

Posts: 1383



homgenization is if you give volks a faust.



No homogenization is making similar units all come out at the exact same time for the exact same cost and turning OKW into USF 2.0 like this patch does. (Only with a better late game.)

23 Nov 2015, 16:07 PM
#695
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3478 | Subs: 1



What , why ?

I didnt say anything about increasing cost of munny in other OKW units.

I sad that volks should have option to choose between 1 shreck and some AI upgrade. I think you misunderstood me. Because right now i spam shrecks because i cant improve my volks anyelse and becuase they are core infantry i will have at least 3 of them


You can't spam them anymore because you need your ammo for other purposes listed above (+mines/mine sweeper/call-in arty etc.. already in game)
So you build 1 or 2 volkshreck supported by other infantry types because having only naked volks will not be sufficient to support you.
Spam problem solved.

What you propose is spam volkshreck +/or spam volksAIstuff. It doesn't solve any spam issue. Absolutely not a anti-spam solution.
23 Nov 2015, 16:07 PM
#696
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7



No homogenization is making similar units all come out at the exact same time for the exact same cost and turning OKW into USF 2.0 like this patch does. (Only with a better late game.)



Relic make homogenization of whole OKW not me so please dont throw all dirt on me.
I´m just saying if they want to give them 100 % of fuel , then some units need cost adjustment or they will not perform for they cost.

23 Nov 2015, 16:08 PM
#697
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4300 | Subs: 2

please. please. PLEASE make maxim and .50 cal retreat like mg42/34!!!!!!!!!

23 Nov 2015, 16:10 PM
#698
avatar of Bananenheld

Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1

So with this "balance" preview...what's stopping axis from schecking blobbing even harder and getting an even earlier panther to mop up? Now that they have both an equal amount of gas and schrecks without any really changes to tier structure?

if he has a shrek blob followed up by panther he has literally only AT and close to zero Ai, what hinders you to build a rifle blob and annhilate his AT blob? why would you try to counter a AT blob with a vehicle? o.O
23 Nov 2015, 16:11 PM
#699
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Nov 2015, 16:07 PMEsxile


You can't spam them anymore because you need your ammo for other purposes listed above (+mines/mine sweeper/call-in arty etc.. already in game)
So you build 1 or 2 volkshreck supported by other infantry types because having only naked volks will not be sufficient to support you.
Spam problem solved.

What you propose is spam volkshreck +/or spam volksAIstuff. It doesn't solve any spam issue. Absolutely not a anti-spam solution.


I tought you was trolling in that post.

Because it would be such major nerf to okw.

If would be like Ok they have small amound of munition , so we give them 25 % more munition and then we will lock 90 % of core design thinks behind munition
23 Nov 2015, 16:17 PM
#700
avatar of Dullahan

Posts: 1383



Relic make homogenization of whole OKW not me so please dont throw all dirt on me.
I´m just saying if they want to give them 100 % of fuel , then some units need cost adjustment or they will not perform for they cost.



That's true, but Relic got their ideas from the community. (Not you specifically, necessarily but still) There's a whole thread where they pretty much copied 80% of the changes from even.

I agree, if they have 100% of fuel then their units should probably be atleast 25% more expensive, but I'd really prefer they just didn't give them 100% resources and instead made resource conversion a global ability on the HQ. Maybe tweaked the amount of resources you got for converting slightly.

They just really took a jackhammer to a nail with this overhaul. It's half baked at best and not very well thought out.

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