It would be interesting if ML-20 and leFH 18 would get direct fire ability, maybe as a vet reward, they could be used also as AT guns then.
On the other hand PaK 40 and ZiS-3 could be towed by half-tracks, it would be useful on bigger maps. The AT gun would be attached to the half-track and the AT crew would enter the M5 or Sd Kfz 251.
Would do you think?
Direct fire for ML-20 and leFH 18
19 Oct 2015, 22:42 PM
#1
Posts: 344
19 Oct 2015, 22:44 PM
#2
Posts: 2053
I believe Eliw00d or someone made a mod in which the sdkfz 251 could tow a pak 40 (long ago when it was possible in the past).
It also looks cool for at guns to be towed realistically.
It also looks cool for at guns to be towed realistically.
19 Oct 2015, 22:45 PM
#3
Posts: 17895 | Subs: 8
B4 have direct fire that is able to one shot med tanks.
How useful is that again?
Because I've used it twice, only once it was effective(it actually hit ele).
How useful is that again?
Because I've used it twice, only once it was effective(it actually hit ele).
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
19 Oct 2015, 23:15 PM
#4
Posts: 344
Yea but B4 have big caliber so it can shoot only once and then it take some time to reload.
I mean they could be used more like PaK 43 but they would be weaker of course. They could switch stance between arty mode and AT mode like KV-2.
ML-20 is the same gun as ISU-152 have and leFH was also able to engage tanks:
I mean they could be used more like PaK 43 but they would be weaker of course. They could switch stance between arty mode and AT mode like KV-2.
ML-20 is the same gun as ISU-152 have and leFH was also able to engage tanks:
An AT role was certainly envisioned for the le FH 18. Figures from a reprint of Datenblätter für Heeres-Waffen, -Fahrzeuge, -Gerät give a penetration at an impact angle of 60 deg from the horizontal of 56/44,5 mm (at 100/1500m) with charge 5 and 64/49 mm with charge 6 for the 10 cm PzGr AP shell; adequate performance against most early war tanks. Better penetration was obtained with HEAT shells, e.g. 100 mm at all distances with 10 cm Gr 39 rot HL/C.
There was also an APDS shell, 10,5 cm Pzgr. 39 (TS) with a penetration of 90 mm at 500 m but according to Waffen und Geheimwaffen des Deutschen Heeres 1933-1945 by Fritz Hahn it remained experimental.
Markus
During the French campaign the leFH 18 was often pressed into service in the anti-tank role when isolated pockets of heavily armoured French tanks, like the Char B and Somua, made breakthroughs. The 10.cm leFH 18 and the famed "88" were often the only weapons available to stop these thunderous beasts.
20 Oct 2015, 00:31 AM
#5
Posts: 165 | Subs: 2
Yes, no, maybe?
Historically both could fire on tanks, but then nearly any artillery piece could if it was able to aim low enough. They also historically hated the idea, because most artillery is optimized for indirect fire, and the crews are primarily trained for that job. Firing on tanks was a desperation move because the battery was unable to pack up and leave in time before the enemy reached their position, or because the anti-tank guns simply weren't enough.
So I suppose you could have them switch to direct fire anti-tank with a toggle button. But you'd need to make them pretty inefficient at it, so that for the same cost of an leFH18 or ML-20 you could have gotten 1-2 anti-tank guns that are much better. And if they're inefficient at it, the toggle is only good if it's a desperate situation. So in most cases you'd never use it, and you'd hope to never have to.
The ZIS-3 is a notable exception since it was built as a multi-purpose gun, and so it wasn't rare to see them right up at the front line.
Historically both could fire on tanks, but then nearly any artillery piece could if it was able to aim low enough. They also historically hated the idea, because most artillery is optimized for indirect fire, and the crews are primarily trained for that job. Firing on tanks was a desperation move because the battery was unable to pack up and leave in time before the enemy reached their position, or because the anti-tank guns simply weren't enough.
So I suppose you could have them switch to direct fire anti-tank with a toggle button. But you'd need to make them pretty inefficient at it, so that for the same cost of an leFH18 or ML-20 you could have gotten 1-2 anti-tank guns that are much better. And if they're inefficient at it, the toggle is only good if it's a desperate situation. So in most cases you'd never use it, and you'd hope to never have to.
The ZIS-3 is a notable exception since it was built as a multi-purpose gun, and so it wasn't rare to see them right up at the front line.
20 Oct 2015, 13:39 PM
#6
Posts: 721
On the other hand PaK 40 and ZiS-3 could be towed by half-tracks, it would be useful on bigger maps. The AT gun would be attached to the half-track and the AT crew would enter the M5 or Sd Kfz 251.
Would do you think?
That should so be in the game.
My mommy always said there were no monsters - no real ones - but there are.
22 Oct 2015, 20:15 PM
#7
Posts: 503
Towing with half tracks would be awesome. And as long as it isn't spot on precision strike it would be cool to see a Vet 1 direct fire ability. Would have to have some scatter though
22 Oct 2015, 20:34 PM
#8
1 Posts: 2885
Yeah, towed at guns and possibly soviet 120mm mortars is great idea. This could also give a reason to use that long forgotten zis truck model that never made it to the multiplayer and standard opel blitz without resource abilities.
As for arty I can see to be similar to pak40 aimed shot as it is now. Clicking the button in UI should change the mode for few seconds and reset cooldown. The arty piece should shoot a shot that has low penetration but either big pen and quite good non pen damage or low pen, minor damage and some sort of crit when hit. The first option is less RNG dependant, the second one is "Every battle tells a story" like.
As for arty I can see to be similar to pak40 aimed shot as it is now. Clicking the button in UI should change the mode for few seconds and reset cooldown. The arty piece should shoot a shot that has low penetration but either big pen and quite good non pen damage or low pen, minor damage and some sort of crit when hit. The first option is less RNG dependant, the second one is "Every battle tells a story" like.
22 Oct 2015, 20:59 PM
#9
Posts: 165 | Subs: 2
Towing is one of those things that's deceptively difficult to do, and Relic's tried twice now with no success.
I'm pretty sure the original plan in CoH1 for all carriage guns was to tow them into position, set them up, and then allow you to pack them up and tow them elsewhere as needed. Building the 8.8cm FlaK36 and M2A1 105mm was a Plan B when towing didn't work.
I'm pretty sure the original plan in CoH1 for all carriage guns was to tow them into position, set them up, and then allow you to pack them up and tow them elsewhere as needed. Building the 8.8cm FlaK36 and M2A1 105mm was a Plan B when towing didn't work.
22 Oct 2015, 21:04 PM
#10
Posts: 4928
I feel like the LeiG and Pack Howitzer would be better fit for the direct-fire artillery role. The ranged attack could then be buffed significantly but limited to the barrage ability.
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22 Oct 2015, 22:54 PM
#11
Posts: 503
Towing is one of those things that's deceptively difficult to do, and Relic's tried twice now with no success.
I'm pretty sure the original plan in CoH1 for all carriage guns was to tow them into position, set them up, and then allow you to pack them up and tow them elsewhere as needed. Building the 8.8cm FlaK36 and M2A1 105mm was a Plan B when towing didn't work.
I was not aware of that. Darn shame because nobody really likes emplacements.
22 Oct 2015, 23:16 PM
#12
Posts: 1150
I feel like the LeiG and Pack Howitzer would be better fit for the direct-fire artillery role. The ranged attack could then be buffed significantly but limited to the barrage ability.
They had that. That was a huge talking point for Relic when they were building hype for WFA. And the M8 Scott could fire directly as well. It was deemed OP though. I guess because you couldn't see the shell coming in? I'm not sure.
I think it would be great if every faction got a field artillery piece. The Wehrmacht had several of differing calibers, I think the largest being 155mm. The leig is based off of a French design, anyway. I don't know if the British had any tiny artillery but they did have a 37mm gun from WW1 but I don't think they would've used that in Europe.
22 Oct 2015, 23:43 PM
#13
Posts: 473
Permanently BannedTowing is one of those things that's deceptively difficult to do, and Relic's tried twice now with no success.
I'm pretty sure the original plan in CoH1 for all carriage guns was to tow them into position, set them up, and then allow you to pack them up and tow them elsewhere as needed. Building the 8.8cm FlaK36 and M2A1 105mm was a Plan B when towing didn't work.
You have a towable 88 though, the Tiger and King Tigers are basically towable 88s
Whenever I face USF as OKW, it feels like I have been strapped down into a mental hospital wheelchair, with legs that can't reach the floor to move myself forward and a nurse is trying to move the wheelchair backwards whilst I have to race a formula one car for a best of three laps.
It feels handicapped from the start
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It feels handicapped from the start
No thumbs, cute and a lot of furry fluffiness, I am the ultimate kitten and by the heavens, am I angry!
23 Oct 2015, 03:33 AM
#14
Posts: 4928
They had that. That was a huge talking point for Relic when they were building hype for WFA. And the M8 Scott could fire directly as well. It was deemed OP though. I guess because you couldn't see the shell coming in? I'm not sure.
It was mostly that they could fire at a low angle or high angle, but I think the low angle shooting was removed except for the Scott. My proposal is essentially for low angle shooting to be default, with high angle belonging to Barrage.
I think it would be great if every faction got a field artillery piece. The Wehrmacht had several of differing calibers, I think the largest being 155mm. The leig is based off of a French design, anyway. I don't know if the British had any tiny artillery but they did have a 37mm gun from WW1 but I don't think they would've used that in Europe.
Eh, everyone else has Mortars, so I don't think it's imminently necessary. If new Eastern Front factions are developed, it'd be cool though. Not sure what you mean about French guns though, the LeiG 18 isn't French.
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