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russian armor

grenadier/panzergrenadier lack of survivability

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15 Oct 2015, 21:58 PM
#101
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

is WILL be 28 mp per model, which is less than grens. Did you read the patchnotes?


The point is that the british are paying the price for a 5 men infantry section in the beginning, even though the infantry sections are only 4 men by default. It is only when they british buy the squad size upgrade that the tommies squad are truly worth 280mp.

By comparison the wehr who pay the straight 240 mp for a 4 men grenadier squad.
15 Oct 2015, 22:03 PM
#102
avatar of daspoulos

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1

Permanently Banned


The point is that the british are paying for a 5 men infantry section in the beginning, even though the infantry sections are only 4 men by default. It is only until the squad size upgrade that the tommies are truly worth 280mp.

unlike the wehr who pay the straight 240 mp for a 4 men grenadier squad.
You greatly under estimate the price of tommies. IS aren't some crappy overpriced 4 man squad. They are extremely good even at 4 men. 30 is more appropriate, 28 is slightly too cheap but its not a big deal.
15 Oct 2015, 22:07 PM
#103
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

You greatly under estimate the price of tommies. IS aren't some crappy overpriced 4 man squad. They are extremely good even at 4 men. 30 is more appropriate, 28 is slightly too cheap but its not a big deal.


assuming that one tommies is equal to one grenadier, it still means that a 4 men tommies squad should be 240 mp, not 280.

the british pay extra in the beginning for the possibility of upgrading into a 5 men squad, in addition to the upgrade itself. The wehr doesn't get the benefit of a 5th man upgrade, but they don't have to worry about an overcharged squad either.
15 Oct 2015, 22:13 PM
#104
avatar of Blalord

Posts: 742 | Subs: 1

You mean IS annihilate grens
15 Oct 2015, 22:24 PM
#105
avatar of daspoulos

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1

Permanently Banned


assuming that one tommies is equal to one grenadier, it still means that a 4 men tommies squad should be 240 mp, not 280.

the british pay extra in the beginning for the possibility of upgrading into a 5 men squad, in addition to the upgrade itself. The wehr doesn't get the benefit of a 5th man upgrade, but they don't have to worry about an overcharged squad either.

No its quite clear that IS man for man are better than grenadiers. Better vet, better received accuracy, better firepower.
Hat
16 Oct 2015, 04:06 AM
#106
avatar of Hat

Posts: 166

Make G-43 upgrade worth having, give 3x g43 and leave one kar98k for rifle grenade.
Give grenadiers either better received accuracy bonuses at vet3 or decrease their reinforcement cost.
About the Panzergrens, as they must be storming enemy lines consistently they need *Stormtrooper received accuracy* right off the bat.
And Ostheer T4 should be abolished, carried back to T3 with British kinda upgrade system. Currently, T4 offers nothing much than T3.


I use them as AT infantry. Regular grenadiers with them LMG are best for AI, if not overpowered against Soviet opponents.
16 Oct 2015, 08:32 AM
#107
avatar of Junaid

Posts: 509


Why do you think the 5 men upgrade comes at t4? SO it doesn't change anything but the late game. Fixing gren scaling, and fragility. All it does is add another dude with a kar98 so dps hardly goes up. Just more squad health. Grens still have the the most inferior vet and received accuracy of all the baseline infantry, but do fine early-mid game. Thats why I suggested gren squads and pgren squads get their cost up to 260-280 and 360-380 respectively if new squads need to be bought after the upgrade.


Mate , I do SUPPORT your idea. I do have my doubts though, which is why I made that post. So I could clarify exactly what I have doubts over and wiser minds may come up with a solution
16 Oct 2015, 08:34 AM
#108
avatar of Junaid

Posts: 509

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Oct 2015, 19:10 PMEsxile


You have better early and better mid game vs UKF, dunno what do you want more?


with IS reinforce set to be at 28mp (cheaper than grens btw) that argument isn't valid either.
16 Oct 2015, 09:06 AM
#109
avatar of atouba

Posts: 482

4 men grens is the weakest core infantry in late game,even in the mid game,they suffer from alot of AOE weapons damage and are wiped out frequently.

Brits has dual equipped 5 men IS and the IS squard has much lower received accuracy but only costs 28 per model.Not to mention Riflemen recently vet buff.

At least the grens need some love.Although I dunno what about the panzergrens. 5 men 2-schrek squard maybe another issue.
16 Oct 2015, 10:15 AM
#110
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3600 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Oct 2015, 08:34 AMJunaid


with IS reinforce set to be at 28mp (cheaper than grens btw) that argument isn't valid either.


Still cost a lot more to deploy. And I'm pretty sure they're not going to stay a 28mp at the patch release.
Gren is still a very effective squad for its price, but not anymore over the top.
16 Oct 2015, 10:44 AM
#111
avatar of Junaid

Posts: 509

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Oct 2015, 10:15 AMEsxile


Still cost a lot more to deploy. And I'm pretty sure they're not going to stay a 28mp at the patch release.

Gren is still a very effective squad for its price, but not anymore over the top.


Cost 40 more mp to deploy. So, 16% more. (based on 240mp gren cost) But their superiority in combat performance is much greater than 16%.

Plus, as it stands, they will cost 28mp to reinforce. That 40mp extra will pretty much be recovered in terms of mp saving on casualties over the course of the game.

You are correct about it being a potential change ofcourse, but until the upcoming patch notes for the preview change, I'll judge their soon -to-be performance as costing 28mp. The patch is for October, only 14 more days at most
16 Oct 2015, 13:20 PM
#112
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

Zombies? We already have relief infantry :bananadance:


Relief infantry is not grenadiers.
16 Oct 2015, 13:31 PM
#113
avatar of Trubbbel

Posts: 721

I tend to almost always play the weakest faction, cheer for the weakest team and stuff like that. To try to bring out the most of it or something, I don't know.

I played Soviets back in the days when conscrips died like flies, the mg didn't suppress and so on.

Now I play Wehrmacht most of the time, so I guess that's telling. I came running with three gren squads with G43 and couldn't kill one model against britsh single squad in cover for a few seconds until it retreated. Meanwhile grens get wiped and once they lose a model there are three left and they become fairly combat ineffective and have to run home. I get the feeling standing still behind cover with lmg and enemy storming forward is a fair fight these days, otherwise not.

PG are for being standby to shreck vehicles circling the pak. In a normal firefight they lose a model fast and are then crippled.

Superior numbers or backing up is the name of the game as wehr these days.
16 Oct 2015, 15:06 PM
#114
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705

Wehrmacht infantry is unplayable lategame,its sad but true.Both LMG grens and panzergrenadiers are simply unable to resist brit or us infantry even on the defense lategame.Just gets rolled effortlessly.

The other 2 problems with wehrmacht are redundant light vehicles.
And finally overpriced and ineffective panzer 4.
16 Oct 2015, 15:47 PM
#115
avatar of kelton312

Posts: 16

I think everyone in this thread forgets that rifle nades consistently wipes full health squads in cover. I realize alot of Wehr players refuse to believe/acknowledge this, I need to just start capturing a video every time it happens so I can paste it into threads like this. Was playing last night and has a 5 man full health IS medic squad with double vickers get wiped by a rifle nade in yellow cover because I glanced away from a second and there was no audio cue. Things like this can be game-ending for brits.
16 Oct 2015, 15:52 PM
#116
avatar of Bananenheld

Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1

I think everyone in this thread forgets that rifle nades consistently wipes full health squads in cover. I realize alot of Wehr players refuse to believe/acknowledge this, I need to just start capturing a video every time it happens so I can paste it into threads like this. Was playing last night and has a 5 man full health IS medic squad with double vickers get wiped by a rifle nade in yellow cover because I glanced away from a second and there was no audio cue. Things like this can be game-ending for brits.

Pls do, I often See them only taking away health and maybe 1 model lose.even clumped it's more of a gamble. I rarely use them anymore except they are very very clumped up.

Btw rifles nade has a huge Wind up, even on my shitty skill Level people dodge then most of the time
16 Oct 2015, 16:01 PM
#117
avatar of kelton312

Posts: 16


Pls do, I often See them only taking away health and maybe 1 model lose.even clumped it's more of a gamble. I rarely use them anymore except they are very very clumped up.

Btw rifles nade has a huge Wind up, even on my shitty skill Level people dodge then most of the time


I'm not saying it is the best ability in the world, but grens have so much utility that nobody is talking about in this thread, they can handle MGs with ease because of rifle nades, not many other units in the game can do that, especially not brit Infantry Sections. A rifle nade usually kills 2 models of a vickers, and that pretty much equals retreat immediately or lose the unit and the team weapon.
They also have fausts and LMG upgrades. I just hope relic doesn't make any snap changes because of people that can't appreciate or use grenadiers for their strengths and just complain about their direct inf vs inf damage/stats and vet.
16 Oct 2015, 16:02 PM
#118
avatar of Burts

Posts: 1702


Pls do, I often See them only taking away health and maybe 1 model lose.even clumped it's more of a gamble. I rarely use them anymore except they are very very clumped up.

Btw rifles nade has a huge Wind up, even on my shitty skill Level people dodge then most of the time



Ok captain amazing, ill say that even at my shitty skill level most of the time people wont dodge well timed riflenades.
16 Oct 2015, 16:07 PM
#119
avatar of Muxsus

Posts: 170

Grens have the best infantry snare (having the most range and pen), best (arguably) core infantry grenade, and an lmg upgrade, all for zero cost since you don't have to sidetech the upgrades. They don't really need to be the best squad in terms of raw combat effectiveness. Ask any Sov player if he wants to trade Cons for Grens and he will say yes, unless ppsh doctrine. It's the utility of Grens that makes them valuable, not their glorious lmg blobs of the past.
16 Oct 2015, 16:11 PM
#120
avatar of Bananenheld

Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Oct 2015, 16:02 PMBurts



Ok captain amazing, ill say that even at my shitty skill level most of the time people wont dodge well timed riflenades.

?? Of Course a WELL timed rifle nade will have effect. Thats the point behind well timed. Did i mention well timed ones or the General use? Look it up before u tryhard with your passive flamin'.
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