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[AXIS] [All modes] [PIV should be on par with Ez8/t3485]

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26 Sep 2015, 08:07 AM
#82
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Sep 2015, 17:09 PMNosliw

Now that the Croc is a thing: no, Paks do NOT do the AT job. The last game I lost against a Croc, I was so frustrated that I calculated the probability of killing a Croc with a Pak. Here's the numbers:

Pak chance to penetrate front armour (the armour you will always shoot since that's where the flamethrower is): 70%

Number of penetrating shots required to kill the 1400hp: 9

Chance of penetrating 9 shots in a row: 4%

Chance the croc will kill all your packs before it dies: 100%
Chance the P4 can penetrate the croc: 39%
Chance the P4 can protect your paks from the flames from hell: 0%



its because churchill crocodile overperforms not because it underperfoms. Brits are too unbalanced right now , bad early game and great late game , and that agains coh2 phylosophi now.


Its better to compare p4 to its counterparts - t 34 /76 , normal sherman and cromwell.

Both are mid game generalists.
If you want late gam tank go tiger or tiger 2
They can be compared to churchills croc or easy 8 or t 34 /85 (you know tiger is doctrina better p4)
ANd if you want to match something agains commete match panther.

You know russians dont cry because 1 t 34 /76 , 1 guard infantry and 1 zis cant defeat panther
26 Sep 2015, 08:33 AM
#83
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7

No offense but I wonder how many dudes made new account just to affect the result.



LOL making second account to win this thread , even relic dont look at it.
I think somebody here is a big Narcis



To topic:

Panzer 4 is fine compared to non doctrinal (or specialised tanks)
All it need to be done is increase t 34 /85 cost to 135 F and easy 8 cost to 140 F. And of course noralise british , but that is lot of work to do , like IS bleed , carriers units cant fire out , emplacements are useless and then the strong late game stuff
26 Sep 2015, 08:54 AM
#84
avatar of Airborne

Posts: 281


Indeed, that's a fortune:lol::lol:

Play some CoH2 first before commenting on balance :lolol::lolol::lolol:


There are few hostile shit poster such as yourself whom I don't consider as "people".

you know OKW is also a clan?
26 Sep 2015, 10:13 AM
#85
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

I would raise the price on the e8 first, since it got a major buff with the last major patch.

In terms of Anti-tank capability the e8 is definitely the stronger than the panzeriv and the t34 85.
26 Sep 2015, 10:19 AM
#86
avatar of AchtAchter

Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3

P4 = -5 fuel
Ez8 = +5 fuel

I think those main medium tanks of every faction shouldn't have more than 640 hp.
26 Sep 2015, 10:34 AM
#87
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1653

OKW Pz4 is considerably the best medium tank of the whole game eith the correct price. I do think that the medium/heavies like Ez8 and T34/85 need to get their fuel to 150 each. Panther still can beat them, which you can see in the fuel cost of the unit.
26 Sep 2015, 15:52 PM
#88
avatar of KurtWilde
Donator 11

Posts: 440


Indeed, that's a fortune:lol::lol:

Play some CoH2 first before commenting on balance :lolol::lolol::lolol:


There are few hostile shit poster such as yourself whom I don't consider as "people".


I said i assume, i told you what i thought of your argument. And a lot of people gave constructive responses, you just ignore them. Dont waste time and play some games. Frim what you say i don't think you play all factions
26 Sep 2015, 15:59 PM
#89
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 236

The penetration on the P4 is terrible and could use a slight buff.
26 Sep 2015, 16:08 PM
#90
avatar of colgate

Posts: 44

cromwell getting destroyed by crecks, sherman getting destryed by creck blob nearly all allied tanks easy meal for creck blob so buff them all too? Just NO!

Panzer IV can beat almost every allied tank, cromwell,sherman,t34,su76 if u flank, it can beat su85, if u can get close it beats jackson. it beats wolverine. And u are talking about problem.

This is just buff my favorite fuction thread.
26 Sep 2015, 16:46 PM
#91
avatar of WFA_DoomTornado

Posts: 100

indeed the PIV beats everything.

@Kurt: I play all factions, but mostly brits/OST. The other 3s are boring and way too easy.
26 Sep 2015, 16:59 PM
#92
avatar of atouba

Posts: 482

Sherman: armor160/80 penetration120 cost 110fuel
Pz4: armor180/90 penetration110 cost 125fuel
T34: armor150/75 penetration100 cost 80 fuel...lol
Cromwell: armor160/80 penetration120 cost 110fuel

So I dunno why Pz4 cost so much??? IMO 115fuel to bring it in line with other medium tanks.
26 Sep 2015, 17:40 PM
#93
avatar of Whoa

Posts: 64

Overpriced, since british forces release this is more clear.
Not to mention the buffs for all other mediums...

Just don't build it.

More Health is better than armor.
26 Sep 2015, 20:37 PM
#94
avatar of Junaid

Posts: 509

I think its just overpriced. @atouba has made an excellent post on the subject (#92 i believe)
26 Sep 2015, 20:41 PM
#95
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 1225

In the standard-pace OH vs US/Soviet 1v1 matchup the PIV is the tech/unit that loses OH the game. Its not that the unit itself sucks, its just that the tech and opportunity costs associated with it make it nonviable pretty much by default.
As you'll usually be quite behind on resources/map control it tends to come out at about 8-9 CP, at which time it can come up against, depending on the build, either 2 Su76s supported by a ZiS, or will have a marginal window of opportunity until M4C Shermans start to hit. What is even worse is that teching T3 and getting the PIV will also delay any Tiger or Panther to the point where you will have no means whatsoever to even contain an IS-2, ISU or 85s, unless you go for the Tiger ace
Vs US its slightly more useful unless your opponent goes Rifle/Armour - which of course 90% of all players do. The M-10, at no tech cost comes out at the same time for just 80 fuel and provides not only better AT but by virtue of its crush arguably better AI as well. Easy 8 vs PIV is no contest either. In short, the PIV has little actual use in the current meta.
26 Sep 2015, 20:57 PM
#96
avatar of WFA_DoomTornado

Posts: 100




even relic dont look at it.
You do have a point. Many players complained about the shock frontline breaking the game, then relic buffed them even further, made the KV8 an alpha crocodile and reduced the popcap on IS2 hue hue hue. Many players complained about USF Ez8 company breaking the game, then relic buffed flamers, bars and made the Ez8 an alpha tiger.


Truth is, these guys are confused and don't know how to finish the development phase. 2 Years on, they are still struggling to balance their game and fix the bugs.
26 Sep 2015, 21:26 PM
#97
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Sep 2015, 16:59 PMatouba
Sherman: armor160/80 penetration120 cost 110fuel
Pz4: armor180/90 penetration110 cost 125fuel
T34: armor150/75 penetration100 cost 80 fuel...lol
Cromwell: armor160/80 penetration120 cost 110fuel

So I dunno why Pz4 cost so much??? IMO 115fuel to bring it in line with other medium tanks.


the t34 have a significantly worst reload than the pziv and a significantly worst scatter.

sherman Ap round have worst AOE than the pziv's normal gun. the sherman is also a bit bigger target. You will be surprised how often people get caught with the wrong shell type.

Cromwell is really the only tank that's under price, but please lower the IS reinforcement cost and firefly cost before even touching the cromwell.

Both pziv also have the advantage of getting the fastest firing gun.

and reduced the popcap on IS2 hue hue hue.


the tiger and king tiger got their pop requirement lowered and their default range buffed. The axis factually got a better deal.



that's a problem with the teching, not the pziv itself.

26 Sep 2015, 23:23 PM
#98
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

...will have a marginal window of opportunity until M4C Shermans start to hit.


Did anyone on the tournament use M4C? Same with 85s.
26 Sep 2015, 23:25 PM
#99
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Sep 2015, 20:08 PMJunaid
True that. Was outplaying a brit on 1v1 kholodny ferma. Had fuel superiority (both fuels) for quite some time too, throughout the match. He built a wasp, AEC and had all 3 HQ upgrades. I build a 222 and HT. We both had first tanks (crom/pz4) out at the same time. Clearly, there is a fuel price issue here.

What about Fuel Caches though? Other territory? Anecdotes with little info don't help us.

British: 405+ Fuel: 255 for all Tech, 50 for AEC ~100 for Cromwell, ? for Universal Carrier.
German: 365 Fuel: 190 for Tech, 20 for 222, 30 for 251, 125 for Panzer IV.


jump backJump back to quoted post25 Sep 2015, 23:35 PMVuther
In penetration performance, 34-76 and M4A3 are entirely alike, while the IV's is superior over the others by 10 at mid-range and 20 at long-range.

The Sherman and T-34/76 had the same penetration and damage, but now the Sherman has the best penetration of any stock medium tank.


why are people comparing the pziv to the e8 and t34 85 first of all. The closest counter part to the pziv are the 75mm sherman, cromwell, and t34 76.

Because it is comparable cost to the T-34/85 and M4A3E8, yet those vehicles are big a step up, and he can get one for every P4 you get.
26 Sep 2015, 23:30 PM
#100
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930


Because it is comparable cost to the T-34/85 and M4A3E8, yet those vehicles are big a step up, and he can get one for every P4 you get.



the panzer4 is 10 mp and 15 fuel more expensive than the 75 sherman and the cromwell, and cost the same population.

the panzer4 is 30 mp and 15fuel cheaper than the t34 85 and cost 2 less population.

the panzer4 is closer to the 75 sherman and cromwell than the t34/85. The panzer4 even take up the same population as the 75 sherman and the cromwell.

I will agree that the E8 should see a cost increase since the recent buff.
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