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russian armor

[USF] [All Modes] [Pack Howie cost]

23 Sep 2015, 09:26 AM
#22
avatar of Maschinengewehr

Posts: 334

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Sep 2015, 09:10 AMKatitof
But hey, sure, lets nerf PACK howi to the ISG level with all stats mirrored, nerf like this would also require cost decrease to mirror it to ISG level, then we'll have balance! :romeoMug:


So so SO much this.

Remove the crap WP barrage and (decent) HEAT shells all you want. I'd take the current ISG anyday over the Pack Howie. The Axis moaning when facing something exactly like the LeIG would bring a tear to my eye..
23 Sep 2015, 09:27 AM
#23
avatar of Burts

Posts: 1702



So so SO much this.

Remove the crap WP barrage and (decent) HEAT shells all you want. I'd take the current ISG anyday over the Pack Howie. The Axis moaning when facing something exactly like the LeIG would bring a tear to my eye..
23 Sep 2015, 09:51 AM
#24
avatar of Puppetmaster
Patrion 310

Posts: 871



I think the fact that pack has lower aa range but higher barrage range is a nice difference, let's not make carbon copies in each faction.


While in theory its a good thing units are different, in practice (in this case at least) it is a bad thing.

When barrage is on cooldown, you forced to move it much closer to the enemy to have any effect which means it is far easier to lose it. LeIG doesn't have this issue since it can just auto attack all day from the safety of the FHQ.
23 Sep 2015, 10:42 AM
#26
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1



1. Flaq HQ allows you to create a safe zone where the ISG can fire without worry of being harrassed as well as the medic HQ where they can be reinforced if counterbarraged.


All you said is correct but this could have a downside too, and an important one. A few dayhs ago I have played a 2v2 as USF against OKW+wehr. And the OKW guy did just what you said. I called a priest. Just one, I didn't need more. Not only I constantly killed its crewed and recrewed ISGs, (and with walking barrage too ) but because the FRP was at his med truck and of course the ISGs where close, I scored 2 hits on ISGs AND his retreating blob.
So, I don't know, it has counterplay, and a strong one may I say.


2. Longer range makes them harder to reach and harder to fight with indirect units.


Agree. It is good.


3. Gun sheild allows it some protection if it comes under fire (no such luck for the pack)


Yes, it's true, but I don't think that places it over pack howie in overall efficiency and worthiness.


4. Especially strong vs. the brits who have a more static playstyle while lacking decent tools to counter it.


IT IS strong against anything that looks like infantry or emplacement, but shouldn't it be?
23 Sep 2015, 11:49 AM
#28
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3597 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Sep 2015, 10:42 AMJohnnyB

Yesterday I ate a apple...

omg arty kills static support units. Great news.


Best way to counter ISG with the pak Howi is using the Vet1 phosphorus barrage + a quick attack ground where the ISG sit.

Best way to counter the pak Howi with the ISG is letting him auto-fire from safe range.

Imo it is far easier to counter the Pak with the ISG than the ISG with the Pak.

Now the main difference between both unit is the synergy it has with its respective army, having the ISG sitting next to the PZHQ and being able to shot at anything in the map is a great synergy USF can't have. Something Axis fanboys don't want to acknowledge.
23 Sep 2015, 11:53 AM
#29
avatar of Omega_Warrior

Posts: 2561

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Sep 2015, 10:42 AMJohnnyB



All you said is correct but this could have a downside too, and an important one. A few dayhs ago I have played a 2v2 as USF against OKW+wehr. And the OKW guy did just what you said. I called a priest. Just one, I didn't need more. Not only I constantly killed its crewed and recrewed ISGs, (and with walking barrage too ) but because the FRP was at his med truck and of course the ISGs where close, I scored 2 hits on ISGs AND his retreating blob.
So, I don't know, it has counterplay, and a strong one may I say.


IT IS strong against anything that looks like infantry or emplacement, but shouldn't it be?

Yes they should, but factions should also have the proper tools to counter them. If wher or OKW start having trouble with packs, they can both purchase a stuka or panzerwherfer which will completely counter them, regardless of which doctrine they chose.

Neither UKF or USF really have anything that can counter the ISG in that way outside of their respective artillery doctrines. UKF doesn't even have a mobile indirect option at all.
23 Sep 2015, 13:36 PM
#30
avatar of WFA_DoomTornado

Posts: 100

@ Omega: Just because it's their only indirect support tool that doesn't mean it should kick everyone's ass. You also have the scot. Panzerwerfer arrives too late, when there are multiple m10, m36s eagerly awaiting its arrival.
23 Sep 2015, 13:49 PM
#31
avatar of Nosliw

Posts: 515

The most important question is, what is OP's 1v1 rank with all the factions?
23 Sep 2015, 13:53 PM
#32
avatar of DevM
Developer Relic Badge

Posts: 409 | Subs: 17

I can never tell if the people who create these kinds of threads are serious or not.
23 Sep 2015, 13:57 PM
#33
avatar of Airborne

Posts: 281

This is a tread from a guy who called penal battalion op.
23 Sep 2015, 14:10 PM
#35
avatar of Omega_Warrior

Posts: 2561

@ Omega: Just because it's their only indirect support tool that doesn't mean it should kick everyone's ass. You also have the scot. Panzerwerfer arrives too late, when there are multiple m10, m36s eagerly awaiting its arrival.

I was just stating the obvious comparison to the ISG. Which is that there are non-doctrinal tools to that can easily counter the pack, while most allied factions lack non-doctrinal means to fully counter the ISG as easily. It doesn't matter if it's hard to access because at least the option is still there. No matter how much UKF spends in tech they aren't going to get access to a real heavy arty unit to counter the lieg.

So just comparing the pack to the ISG is useless if you aren't considering all the benefits the ISG has because of the faction it's in and the factions it faces.
23 Sep 2015, 14:13 PM
#36
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1

Problem:
  • USF Their baseline inf can rip apart German wussies and give each one 2 zooks and they can hard-counter any medium vehicles as well, their supposed hard-counters.

    The pack howie is possibly the best piece of arty in game, wiping at least 3 models with each shell, hard countering the ISG, destroying OKW trucks, pin the HMG42, wipe out GrW34s and has 2 awesome abilities and could be used as an occasional AT.

    It still will be a potent and reliable mobile arty without any cheesy wipes or breaking OKW core design feature.




Ah yes, those infamous overpowered USF bazookas that "hard counter" vehicles but no mention of Schreks? Description of what pack howie does that basically describes ISG as well? I'm sorry but post reeks of bias. Pack Howie has larger AOE due to its higher cost and slower shell speed (possibly RoF too? Not sure TBH). Part of the whole asymmetrical balance of core COH2 design.

Yes, both Pack Howie and ISG feel pretty cheesy after buff and then changes should be rolled back but if you are going to make threads about nerfs then at least admit that both changes need reverted and try to not turn half of it into "Another faction has hard counters to my units so please nerf some of them" whine.
23 Sep 2015, 14:35 PM
#39
avatar of Skabinsk

Posts: 238

This must be a joke????????
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