I find the USF lack of indirect fire frightening to say the least.+1 This is why I hope the Calliope in the game files isn't a lie. I shudder when I find myself on maps that tend to devolve into Central VP camping like Semois or Langresaya because I just know I'm going to end up banging my head off a Pak/MG42 wall more often than not while futilely throwing Pak Howie barrages at it. *sigh*
State of USF
18 Aug 2015, 16:12 PM
#41
Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1
18 Aug 2015, 17:19 PM
#42
Posts: 1144 | Subs: 7
Remember that rifleman have the lethality 15% accuracy bonus whereas RE dont. So the accuracy discrepancy is larger than you think. I remember reading they were trying to phase this out but I don't remember if they did or not
18 Aug 2015, 17:29 PM
#43
Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1
Remember that rifleman have the lethality 15% accuracy bonus whereas RE dont.
Could you please clarify? Is this accuracy bonus something else aside from the normal vet bonus?
18 Aug 2015, 17:30 PM
#44
Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13
Remember that rifleman have the lethality 15% accuracy bonus whereas RE dont. So the accuracy discrepancy is larger than you think. I remember reading they were trying to phase this out but I don't remember if they did or not
Wasn't that before all the stats were merged into one where all units, prior to July where all infantry units had 15% (20% for certain units) accuracy bonus to their weapons?
18 Aug 2015, 18:03 PM
#45
Posts: 521
CoH1 USF was so much better. It wasn't a half baked pie that CoH2's USF is. CoH2's USF is missing so many things, for example MINES, HOOVY TANKS. And their tiers are crap. You either choose MGs or overpriced mortars and an AT gun that has less penetration than a panzerschreck.
To me, USF is a puzzle whose pieces were forced to fit the wrong way. Relic needs to fix their puzzle of a faction.
To me, USF is a puzzle whose pieces were forced to fit the wrong way. Relic needs to fix their puzzle of a faction.
18 Aug 2015, 18:03 PM
#46
Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41
Remember that rifleman have the lethality 15% accuracy bonus whereas RE dont. So the accuracy discrepancy is larger than you think. I remember reading they were trying to phase this out but I don't remember if they did or not
Long gone, they merged all the accuracy values back into the weapon files and so RE vet0 == rifleman vet0 dps with BAR, only difference will come from veterancy.
18 Aug 2015, 18:09 PM
#47
4 Posts: 550 | Subs: 1
Your post was all going well until this.
Imagine a world where BAR's are buffed to the point of gren MG42's, now imagine two of these BAR's equipped on a pathfinder squad. You know have a gimmicky balance problem even worse than Conscript PTRS's.
He's not suggesting to buff bars to lmg 42 levels. Currently 2 bars do about 75% of the damage of 1 lmg42 at max range. But he's not suggesting to change the ease of a-moving rifles, he want's them to be better when they flank, which means close to mid range damage. It is easily possible to adjust bars in a way that they'll do more damage at close and mid range and maintain their performance at long range by either increasing the rate of fire or accuracy at close and medium ranges.
I think that his idea is rather good and wouldn't lead to problems with pathfinders since they need to be used at long range or they'll bleed.
Rifles could also be turned into better flankers by decreasing their movement accuracy penalty.
Help test the USF teching adjustment mod: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1553135357
18 Aug 2015, 18:10 PM
#48
Posts: 1144 | Subs: 7
Long gone, they merged all the accuracy values back into the weapon files and so RE vet0 == rifleman vet0 dps with BAR, only difference will come from veterancy.
cool. at the end of the day though rifles still have higher dps thanks to the garands and vet
18 Aug 2015, 18:23 PM
#49
Posts: 1891
When you think about it REs are the counterpart to Volks and Rifles the counterpart to Sturms
The Fascisti Will Pay.
18 Aug 2015, 18:36 PM
#50
Posts: 4928
When you think about it REs are the counterpart to Volks and Rifles the counterpart to Sturms
No, not really.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
18 Aug 2015, 18:40 PM
#51
Posts: 1891
Sturms and Rifles are both flankers with lots of utility. They also both bleed a lot lategame.
REs and Volks are both really cheap and can build defenses. My argument only falls apart when you include weapon racks, which is the USF flavor.
REs and Volks are both really cheap and can build defenses. My argument only falls apart when you include weapon racks, which is the USF flavor.
The Fascisti Will Pay.
18 Aug 2015, 18:47 PM
#52
Posts: 1144 | Subs: 7
Sturms and Rifles are both flankers with lots of utility. They also both bleed a lot lategame.
REs and Volks are both really cheap and can build defenses. My argument only falls apart when you include weapon racks, which is the USF flavor.
not really. USF has an inverted OKW design. their starting/builder unit is weak compared to the powerful sturm, and their rifle infantry is very strong compared to the weakest nondoc rifle squad.
18 Aug 2015, 18:51 PM
#53
Posts: 1891
not really. USF has an inverted OKW design. their starting/builder unit is weak compared to the powerful sturm, and their rifle infantry is very strong compared to the weakest nondoc rifle squad.
Just throwing ideas out man. I see the inverted nature of the factions but at the same time it's really possible that most people aren't playing the Amis the way they were intended by Relic.
The Fascisti Will Pay.
18 Aug 2015, 19:11 PM
#54
Posts: 106
Is Rifle Company commander too good?
Thinking further on it, I'm certain every (high level) live match and cast I've watched over the past two months has not featured a USF player going Airborne for Paras.
I know we are talking stock units here, but thinking about how Flamer is a better upgrade to BAR, what happened to Paratroopers?
Is it simply that E8 and Flamer are too good to pass up?
Thinking further on it, I'm certain every (high level) live match and cast I've watched over the past two months has not featured a USF player going Airborne for Paras.
I know we are talking stock units here, but thinking about how Flamer is a better upgrade to BAR, what happened to Paratroopers?
Is it simply that E8 and Flamer are too good to pass up?
18 Aug 2015, 19:19 PM
#55
Posts: 17896 | Subs: 8
cool. at the end of the day though rifles still have higher dps thanks to the garands and vet
The grenades have so long throw animation they could just as well be molos.
Landing one is impossible on half aware player.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
18 Aug 2015, 19:21 PM
#56
Posts: 1891
The grenades have so long throw animation they could just as well be molos.
Landing one is impossible on half aware player.
He's talking about M1 Garands, not Grenades.
Rifle vet scaling idea: instead of shorter cooldown at vet 3, decrease animation times of abilities at vet 3.
The Fascisti Will Pay.
18 Aug 2015, 19:23 PM
#57
Posts: 17896 | Subs: 8
He's talking about M1 Garands, not Grenades.
My bad, coffee worn off.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
18 Aug 2015, 19:52 PM
#58
Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1
cool. at the end of the day though rifles still have higher dps thanks to the garands and vet
Interesting, so its more of a question of if you want a single squad with higher DPS or to spread it out over two squads.
I'd like to know how much of a DPS increase RET Carbine -> BAR is compared to Garand -> BAR is. That is, if you get more out of your 60 MU short term if you upgrade the RET. Of course this would have diminishing returns the longer the hypothetical Rifle squad is at Vet 3.
18 Aug 2015, 19:55 PM
#59
Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1
He's talking about M1 Garands, not Grenades.
Rifle vet scaling idea: instead of shorter cooldown at vet 3, decrease animation times of abilities at vet 3.
I thought I read somewhere on here that the wind-up time on Rifleman grenades was wrong in the game files and thats why it takes so damn long. Be nice if Relic just fixed it instead, though it would be pretty sweet if Rifleman got cooked grenades at Vet 3 instead
18 Aug 2015, 19:58 PM
#60
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
Is Rifle Company commander too good?
Thinking further on it, I'm certain every (high level) live match and cast I've watched over the past two months has not featured a USF player going Airborne for Paras.
I know we are talking stock units here, but thinking about how Flamer is a better upgrade to BAR, what happened to Paratroopers?
Is it simply that E8 and Flamer are too good to pass up?
Rifle Company is basically a commander reserved for CQC maps were the flamers can shine. It also allows you to replace your lost squads with vetted ones. The vet call in also allows you to apply more pressure early game with AT nades.
Airborne and Armor are the two most popular commanders, since 1 gives you extremely powerful elite infantry that can reinforce in the field with beacons. Paras with 1919s will beat any Axis infantry unit head on and win fairly easily. Another trick is BAR Pathfinders, who vet up very fast and are extremely deadly.
Armor is great because Ass Engines give you demo charges, the M10 has good DPS, is the best crushing unit in the game, and you don't have to tech for it. The commander is essentially callinmeta.txt
A close third is Infantry Company, since it gives you heavy mobile indirect fire, powerful 360 suppression LMG's.
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