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M5 Quadrush

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24 Jul 2015, 08:22 AM
#121
avatar of Qvazar

Posts: 881

Lower the DPS of the M5 quad. Now soviet player has to choose between suppression/reinforce platform or the T-70.
Maybe up its DPS through vet for lategame potential.
24 Jul 2015, 08:25 AM
#122
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1653

Penetration perhaps also a bit back. Too good :(
24 Jul 2015, 08:30 AM
#123
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

I'd love a Panzer III Ausf. M, although a Panzer III Ausf. N would be more historically accurate.

Model M is sexier though :wub:


Speaking of this, there are actually files for a Panzer III, exact model isn't clear but it was at least a Model L as the gun is named panzer_iii_50mm_mp.xml. Stat-wise, it seems it was intended to be a counterpart to the T-70. Possibly dropped because Relic couldn't spare the resources to make it, it uses the Panzer IV Ausf. F1 model and is not functional as a unit, although if spawned it will shoot at enemies.
24 Jul 2015, 08:35 AM
#124
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1

I have played a few 4v4 games as Soviet and I've changed my mind.

That thing is so fucking good. Especially with snipers, which help to take out PSchrekked PGrens and Paks.

Lowering damage won't help much, because 360 noscope long range AoE suppression will counter any infantry play anyway.

I think that locking upgrade behind T4 is the only option. Though I fear that it will repeat fate of Wehrmach Flamer Halftrack, despite it have no need to get into grenade range to shoot.

Personally, I'd better plant 4 mines in late game.

EDIT: I have to add that I never faced EARLY Pak. Opponents always tried to rush Puma/Panther or Ostwind/Pz.IV.
24 Jul 2015, 09:06 AM
#125
avatar of Maschinengewehr

Posts: 334

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Jul 2015, 08:19 AMBlalord


30 to 55 is a big nerf, maybe a smaller one :)


45-50 fuel? It's not really a nerf, more of a timing adjustment.
24 Jul 2015, 09:09 AM
#126
avatar of Maschinengewehr

Posts: 334



Speaking of this, there are actually files for a Panzer III, exact model isn't clear but it was at least a Model L as the gun is named panzer_iii_50mm_mp.xml. Stat-wise, it seems it was intended to be a counterpart to the T-70. Possibly dropped because Relic couldn't spare the resources to make it, it uses the Panzer IV Ausf. F1 model and is not functional as a unit, although if spawned it will shoot at enemies.


I've always wanted a 70 fuel Pz III in Ost T2. Would be nice to have a more mobile solution for Ost's current light vehicle dilemma.
24 Jul 2015, 10:40 AM
#127
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1653

I have played a few 4v4 games as Soviet and I've changed my mind.

That thing is so fucking good. Especially with snipers, which help to take out PSchrekked PGrens and Paks.

Lowering damage won't help much, because 360 noscope long range AoE suppression will counter any infantry play anyway.

I think that locking upgrade behind T4 is the only option. Though I fear that it will repeat fate of Wehrmach Flamer Halftrack, despite it have no need to get into grenade range to shoot.

Personally, I'd better plant 4 mines in late game.

EDIT: I have to add that I never faced EARLY Pak. Opponents always tried to rush Puma/Panther or Ostwind/Pz.IV.


Luckely you've seen the problems now for yourself. So what we told wasn't utterly bullcrap. Point is that the early pak is just not flexible enough to take out a M5 since it can just flank you and take out your pak in only 2 seconds. Therefor a Puma does a way better job since it's armour is more resilliant against M5 Quad power
24 Jul 2015, 10:56 AM
#128
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1



Luckely you've seen the problems now for yourself. So what we told wasn't utterly bullcrap. Point is that the early pak is just not flexible enough to take out a M5 since it can just flank you and take out your pak in only 2 seconds. Therefor a Puma does a way better job since it's armour is more resilliant against M5 Quad power

Puma comes out a little bit late (if M5 was rushed) and is a reliable doctinal solution only if Soviet player chose doctrine without PTRS (non-Guard, not Tank Hunter).

Early Pak isn't flexible enough against M5 at same level as Maxim isn't flexible enough to deal with Kubel. Both can't finish it unless you've damaged its engine, but both can push that thing off. Actually Pak have more chances to kill M5 than Maxim against Kubel.

IMO if you let M5 to #justflank your Pak, you did something wrong, just like with any other light vehicle, be it T-70, double flamer M5 or just M3A1 flamecar.
24 Jul 2015, 11:00 AM
#129
avatar of Tatatala

Posts: 589

I think Comm Ash had the best solution in the other thread. Make it so that it can't suppress on the move, just like the Kubel.

It can then be fausted if moving, or hit with a PaK if stationary and in suppression mode.

All these other suggestions are either too lacklustre, or over nerf.


I don't think you can give it a setup time, like OKW flak, because it doesn't come automatically with quad.
24 Jul 2015, 11:11 AM
#130
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439

I think Comm Ash had the best solution in the other thread. Make it so that it can't suppress on the move, just like the Kubel.

It can then be fausted if moving, or hit with a PaK if stationary and in suppression mode.

All these other suggestions are either too lacklustre, or over nerf.


I don't think you can give it a setup time, like OKW flak, because it doesn't come automatically with quad.


Agreed. T4 requirement will make it come too late. Pushing T3 back will hurt overall performance of Soviet Army. I prefer M5 being powerful but with a gimmick rather than support unit it was.
24 Jul 2015, 11:31 AM
#131
avatar of Rizza
Donator 22

Posts: 101

I don't like the idea of needing T4 to upgrade the M5.

If the M5 is OP, increase it's fuel cost, or require it to gain vet before upgrading.
24 Jul 2015, 11:37 AM
#132
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 1225

New tech structure is honestly insanely stupid. Its entirely feasible to get the quad out at 3cp, while you won't get a PIV before 7cp unless you have absolutely dominating map control, and by the time you do, there will be 2 Su-76s waiting for you. OH is flat out borked this patch.
24 Jul 2015, 11:44 AM
#133
avatar of Maschinengewehr

Posts: 334

New tech structure is honestly insanely stupid. Its entirely feasible to get the quad out at 3cp, while you won't get a PIV before 7cp unless you have absolutely dominating map control, and by the time you do, there will be 2 Su-76s waiting for you. OH is flat out borked this patch.


Tellers and Pumas from Mobile Defense are your saviour Kappa.
24 Jul 2015, 11:45 AM
#134
avatar of daspoulos

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1

Permanently Banned
My issue is just the damage. I dont care about the cost, or the suppression or the reinforcement. But the super high dps, makes the current mg42 look weak.
24 Jul 2015, 11:51 AM
#135
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1653

The problem in my eyes are the high dps + high penetration + supressing. I think indeed no supression on the move is the best thing to solve it.

@Elslayer I know that you do something wrong, but at some points your units get pushed back and your pak isn't back in the front lines quick enough.
24 Jul 2015, 11:59 AM
#136
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1

@Elslayer I know that you do something wrong, but at some points your units get pushed back and your pak isn't back in the front lines quick enough.

But then it is not a problem with M5 exclusively.
24 Jul 2015, 12:10 PM
#137
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1653

True, but the power of a Quad M5 is way higher than a T-70. T-70 also will do the trick but never that fast as a M5
24 Jul 2015, 12:12 PM
#138
avatar of Blalord

Posts: 742 | Subs: 1



Tellers and Pumas from Mobile Defense are your saviour Kappa.


Pumas come at 5 CP when Quad will come around 3 CP Kappa

24 Jul 2015, 12:18 PM
#139
avatar of Maschinengewehr

Posts: 334

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Jul 2015, 12:12 PMBlalord


Pumas come at 5 CP when Quad will come around 3 CP Kappa



I know. I was jesting. Ost Pumas still work a treat against USF though. Just need to distract that Stuart for a bit and you're good to go :)
24 Jul 2015, 12:40 PM
#140
avatar of TickTack

Posts: 578

You guys are just complaining because a relic dev hinted they'd nerf the quad if they found it to be OP. It is not OP.

Use Pak, even some small arms fire with Pak will kill it. With schreks and pak it has no chance at all.

Flank the truck like other inf flank HMG's. Lay mines. Build early AT. L2P.

#Adapt.
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