Login

russian armor

Balance Data Since The Patch

PAGES (16)down
9 Jul 2015, 07:16 AM
#261
avatar of KurtWilde
Donator 11

Posts: 440

Just a few words to say:

Future COH2 esports tournaments will be 100% balanced for the following reason:
- Both teams will be able to play both Axis & Allies
- Both teams will play on the same maps
- Both teams will have access to the same commanders & factions

and if you wanna go further

- Both teams will have the same bulletins

Problem solved. Think CS:GO. Terrorists & Counter-Terrorists asymmetrically balanced but because you get to play both of them, it's balanced at the end.


I don't think CS: Go is a good example. balance the way they they balance LoL
9 Jul 2015, 07:18 AM
#262
avatar of Ohme
Honorary Member Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 889 | Subs: 1

AT and Random games matter.

But, I also think you can take AT rankings importance a little to far. The data is interesting, without a doubt, because it represents a different population of players. That said, its population is comprised by those same AT players playing randoms.

Many people who play AT games play randoms in 3v3+, which means the AT data will necessarily be comprised of players who exist in the Random populations. These players who (can reasonably be believed to) enjoy team games are likely to be: more experienced, more skilled, and have more hours spent playing COH2 team games. The point being, AT players are also sometimes Random players, and in both cases they are often matched against players who are worse than them.


Everyone is playing against randoms.


AT Data will not necessarily reflect "Competitive 4v4s between arranged teams" because the data sample is polluted with random games.

9 Jul 2015, 08:32 AM
#263
avatar of Tatatala

Posts: 589

Let's have a look at this weeks 4v4 data:




Axis total games 2632, with an average WR = .865

Allies total games 1013, with an average WR = .574

Let's say that all those allied games were against top 200 axis randoms (which they weren't of course).
This leaves a shortfall of games played by allied randoms of 1619 games ( just over 61% of all axis top 200 games played).


What does this mean? It means that those games (61% of all top 200 axis games) were either played against AT teams, where the top Axis randoms were able to maintain their winning average and/or those games were against players of a (much?) lower skill (most likely scenario).

Given that a lot of players play random team games, this is problematic for maintaining the game's already depleted population imo.

If the game dies, it doesn't matter if you're top 1% player, in the top 200 randoms of any game mode, a high ranking AT team, or any other. Relic will stop updates for economical practicalities.
9 Jul 2015, 08:44 AM
#264
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1

Add here the fact that part of those Axis/Allies top 200 players are the same group of people achieving different result with different factions.
9 Jul 2015, 10:18 AM
#265
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1

We can assume whenever we play Axis or Allied randomly we have the same probability to meet an AT team. Still as Axis we will win 8 games over 10, as Allied a bit more than 1 over 2.

AT team isn't in fact a sufficient parameter to counter Axis superiority in 4vs4.

So basing the balance over it isn't going to lead you anywhere.

9 Jul 2015, 12:11 PM
#266
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

Let's have a look at this weeks 4v4 data:




Axis total games 2632, with an average WR = .865

Allies total games 1013, with an average WR = .574

Let's say that all those allied games were against top 200 axis randoms (which they weren't of course).
This leaves a shortfall of games played by allied randoms of 1619 games ( just over 61% of all axis top 200 games played).


What does this mean? It means that those games (61% of all top 200 axis games) were either played against AT teams, where the top Axis randoms were able to maintain their winning average and/or those games were against players of a (much?) lower skill (most likely scenario).

Given that a lot of players play random team games, this is problematic for maintaining the game's already depleted population imo.

If the game dies, it doesn't matter if you're top 1% player, in the top 200 randoms of any game mode, a high ranking AT team, or any other. Relic will stop updates for economical practicalities.


So is this thread only about 4v4 now because your chickenlittiling over balance in 2's seems to have fallen right on it's face.
9 Jul 2015, 14:41 PM
#267
avatar of Tatatala

Posts: 589



So is this thread only about 4v4 now because your chickenlittiling over balance in 2's seems to have fallen right on it's face.


When did I say that it was all about 4's? People were talking about 4's, so I added some 4's stuff.

"Chickenlittiling" over balance on 2's has fallen on its (no apostrophe) face? Care to explain?
9 Jul 2015, 16:49 PM
#268
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

yeah this was about balance overall, but i made a cmment about 4v4 so i guess that's what we are tlaking about now
9 Jul 2015, 16:58 PM
#269
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



When did I say that it was all about 4's? People were talking about 4's, so I added some 4's stuff.

"Chickenlittiling" over balance on 2's has fallen on its (no apostrophe) face? Care to explain?


You spent the entire first half of the thread saying everything was outa' whack because of the 2v2 stats you linked.
9 Jul 2015, 17:37 PM
#270
avatar of Tatatala

Posts: 589



You spent the entire first half of the thread saying everything was outa' whack because of the 2v2 stats you linked.


Please quote me.
9 Jul 2015, 17:40 PM
#271
avatar of Napalm

Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Jul 2015, 07:18 AMOhme
AT and Random games matter.

But, I also think you can take AT rankings importance a little to far. The data is interesting, without a doubt, because it represents a different population of players. That said, its population is comprised by those same AT players playing randoms.

Many people who play AT games play randoms in 3v3+, which means the AT data will necessarily be comprised of players who exist in the Random populations. These players who (can reasonably be believed to) enjoy team games are likely to be: more experienced, more skilled, and have more hours spent playing COH2 team games. The point being, AT players are also sometimes Random players, and in both cases they are often matched against players who are worse than them.


Everyone is playing against randoms.


AT Data will not necessarily reflect "Competitive 4v4s between arranged teams" because the data sample is polluted with random games.



I missed you. Welcome back ohme. I'm not sure if it is technically possible but it would be cool to separate the data samples into different pools.

- Arranged team vs arranged team
- Arranged team vs randoms
- Randoms vs randoms
9 Jul 2015, 18:27 PM
#272
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Jul 2015, 17:40 PMNapalm

- Arranged team vs arranged team
- Arranged team vs randoms
- Randoms vs randoms

cuz nobody really interested
9 Jul 2015, 19:08 PM
#273
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



Please quote me.


Allies have become even weaker in team games. Probably due to the Double heavies crutch being taken away.


Random axis teams seem to cope a lot better, given the data, than random allies do, should they meet an AT team.


So top 200 2v2/3v3/4v4 random Allies, just have bad luck, and get a harder match more than the Axis random's?


You keep mentioning team games and 2v2, were obviously now 2v2 is much more balanced than any of the game modes.
9 Jul 2015, 19:11 PM
#274
avatar of Tatatala

Posts: 589




You keep mentioning team games and 2v2, were obviously now 2v2 is much more balanced than any of the game modes.


3 quotes from 2 posts. Now, tell me if I'm wrong, but does that really equate with your previous statement?

I was also berated heavily for using the data to explain balance, so I refrained from doing so since. But, now the data is favourable to you and Dusty, it's now acceptable? Is that what you're saying in a round about way?

9 Jul 2015, 19:15 PM
#275
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



3 quotes from 2 posts. Now, tell me if I'm wrong, but does that really equate with your previous statement?


The reason I ask "Is this thread only going to be about 3v3 and 4v4" because it seems like that is the last remaining place were there is an obvious issue. Interestingly enough, everyone already knows what is wrong with both those game modes.

I'm merely trying to highlight that balance is actually in a really good place right now (not that factions could use help in certain area's) in the competitive game modes.
9 Jul 2015, 19:17 PM
#276
avatar of Tatatala

Posts: 589



The reason I ask "Is this thread only going to be about 3v3 and 4v4" because it seems like that is the last remaining place were there is an obvious issue. Interestingly enough, everyone already knows what is wrong with both those game modes.

I'm merely trying to highlight that balance is actually in a really good place right now (not that factions could use help in certain area's) in the competitive game modes.


No you're not. You tried to sneak in a cheap shot. Try harder next time.
9 Jul 2015, 19:25 PM
#277
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



No you're not. You tried to sneak in a cheap shot. Try harder next time.


"A cheap shot" is projecting your maleficence onto other posters because you assume they are trying to insult you. I'm not here to score points or w/e I'm just pointing out that the focus of balance vis a vis this data should be 3's and 4's because that is were the greatest discrepancy is shown.

However; we already know the biggest issue is maps.
9 Jul 2015, 21:07 PM
#278
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2


However; we already know the biggest issue is maps.


Matchmaking, micro tax, ease of use of units and lategame potential.
9 Jul 2015, 21:26 PM
#279
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1


ease of use of units and lategame potential.


....which are directly related to maps. USF late game is very mobile and hard hitting, but when all the maps are small and easy to lock down then USF late game is shit. Soviet late game isn't in as dire straits due to indirect fire but still you get my point.

Fixing maps should be the top priority.
10 Jul 2015, 06:54 AM
#280
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

fight fight fight!
PAGES (16)down
2 users are browsing this thread: 2 guests

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • U.S. Forces flag cblanco ★
  • The British Forces flag 보드카 중대
  • Oberkommando West flag VonManteuffel
  • Ostheer flag Heartless Jäger
uploaded by XXxxHeartlessxxXX

Board Info

737 users are online: 737 guests
3 posts in the last 24h
4 posts in the last week
23 posts in the last month
Registered members: 48722
Welcome our newest member, asherllc
Most online: 2043 users on 29 Oct 2023, 01:04 AM