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Suppression for Grens.. Bug/Working as intended?

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29 Jun 2015, 17:46 PM
#101
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

You guys know how small the chance of this happening is right? The reason why it's seen on cons more often like I said is they are you easier to hit combined with the fact they have a high model count.




Pretty much confirms it has a lot to due with accuracy mechanics then (incremental as well as red cover). Because the shocks armor just allows them to shrug off shots instead of avoiding them.

Also means Vetted grens will do it more often due to that sweet vet 2 +40% accuracy.


PLEASE, stop spreading bullshit if you just are not 90% sure how something works or at least have the decency of looking for stats.

Let's start...

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jun 2015, 16:26 PMBlalord
A unit under fire will stay longer suppressed, we all know that, but why the fuck can gren create a suppress, thats a mistery ... Do they have some autotesting process like we have in web development ? huge drawback : /


Normal infantry don't deal suppression, they make a unit remain on combat status which furthers reduce suppression recovery rate. Those are 2 completely different things.

1-"Accuracy does not affect suppression against the squad itself, but it affects splash suppression.
Basically:

For every bullet shot at the target squad it will receive the suppression value of the bullet multiplied with the cover modifier and modifier if the squad is suppressed, regardless if it hits or not.
Suppression_amount * cover_table_entry * squad_state_entry = Suppression per shot on target squad


For every bullet hitting the target squad, it will suppress all squads in an area around it depending on the cover modifier of the targeted squad (not the ones nearby!), the state modifier (pinned/suppressed) of the targeted squad the splash modifier.
Suppression_amount * cover_table_entry * nearby_suppression_multiplier * squad_state_entry = Suppression per hit on target squad for all squads in a nearby_suppression_radius area around the squad.

Keep the "targeted" and "hit" in mind. Accuracy matters for splash suppression and both splash and target suppression depend on the cover and state of the target squad.

Complicated? A bit :p
Now look at what that means:

If you are shooting at a pinned/suppressed squad, others in the area will receive lower suppression!
If you have two squads as targets, one in the open, one in green cover and you shoot at the one in the open, both will quickly get suppressed. If you shoot at the one in cover, none will get suppressed.
If you fire at a house, nearby units will not receive noticeable suppression.
And now comes the really trick part where knowledge shines.
If you fire at an Oberkommando truck or a tank, it will deal no damage, but massively suppress all squads around it since usually cover, state and accuracy are all < 1. For a tank as target they are all 1, meaning you have a huge splash suppression! ;p"


-Milkacow

Now, let's have some proper stats (http://www.coh2-stats.com/)

PF Kar:
Suppression far:0.0
Suppression radius:0.0
Nearby multiplier:0.0

Gren/Ober/JLI Kar:
Suppression far:0.006
Suppression radius:10.0
Nearby multiplier:0.1

Paratroopers and RE Carbine/Osstruppen Kar and maybe other weapons profiles:
Suppression far: 0.0
Suppression radius: 10.0
Nearby multiplier: 0.1

Note that the value is 0, so it won't do shit probably.
29 Jun 2015, 17:51 PM
#102
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1





PLEASE, stop spreading bullshit if you just are not 90% sure how something works or at least have the decency of looking for stats.


man i'm just trying to do my best to help figure out what the fuck is going on here, im stuck sitting in a bed with nothing to do. :guyokay:

29 Jun 2015, 17:52 PM
#103
avatar of Tetley

Posts: 187



It's the same reason why some people think the new HMG42 suppression is fine but the maxims suppression (or lack thereof) should not receive the same buff because flanking is apparently only something allies should have to do and mindless infantry spam is something that isn't a problem when axis do it.


+1
29 Jun 2015, 17:54 PM
#104
avatar of siddolio

Posts: 471 | Subs: 1



man i'm just trying to do my best to help figure out what the fuck is going on here, im stuck sitting in a bed with nothing to do. :guyokay:




What about all the other times you tried spreading bullshit? KAPPA

29 Jun 2015, 17:59 PM
#105
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1




What about all the other times you tried spreading bullshit? KAPPA



iv tried to be less biased or w/e lately (mostly because Iv gotten tired of playing 3's and 4's and started playing 2s).

did i use to be a fanboy? yes.

but well maybe it's the haze of the painkillers but i feel like shit that most people here just treat me like a joke despite me just being passionate about discussing things
29 Jun 2015, 18:02 PM
#106
avatar of Tatatala

Posts: 589

I love how upset people are getting over this. It rarely happens in an actual match, I had it happen once to me in 20 games last night (and it didn't make a difference).

It'll get fixed, it's not intended, and it won't make any difference in your matches.


Who's upset?

Just reporting something that I found. And yes, it actually will affect your match, especially when people are blobbing grens.
29 Jun 2015, 18:02 PM
#107
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1

but well maybe it's the haze of the painkillers but i feel like shit that most people here just treat me like a joke despite me just being passionate about discussing things


It's due to your past reputation. I do think that your post have become a lot more objective lately.
29 Jun 2015, 18:47 PM
#108
avatar of daspoulos

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1

Permanently Banned
oh great incremental accuracy per model is wrecking more things than just overbuffing HMGs. change it please for gods sake.
29 Jun 2015, 18:48 PM
#109
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

oh great incremental accuracy per model is wrecking more things than just overbuffing HMGs. change it please for gods sake.


Nah it's not that. Accuracy doesn't have anything to do with single target suppression:

Keep the "targeted" and "hit" in mind. Accuracy matters for splash suppression and both splash and target suppression depend on the cover and state of the target squad.
29 Jun 2015, 19:01 PM
#110
avatar of iTzDusty

Posts: 836 | Subs: 5



Who's upset?

Just reporting something that I found. And yes, it actually will affect your match, especially when people are blobbing grens.


It will only affect you if you aren't using cover and blobbing. So basically never unless you aren't playing well.
29 Jun 2015, 19:10 PM
#111
avatar of Justin xv

Posts: 255



It will only affect you if you aren't using cover and blobbing. So basically never unless you aren't playing well.


And the times cover isn't available just have to suck it up and get suppressed?

Lol good logic, cover must be everywhere or you're a n00b for not using it. Nice...
29 Jun 2015, 19:10 PM
#112
avatar of Tatatala

Posts: 589



It will only affect you if you aren't using cover and blobbing. So basically never unless you aren't playing well.


I think you fail to understand what's actually happening here. Blobbing is nothing to do with it.
29 Jun 2015, 19:13 PM
#113
avatar of Cruzz

Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41



It will only affect you if you aren't using cover and blobbing. So basically never unless you aren't playing well.


Glad to hear you're so good at this game you never have fights against 2 or more grenadiers (or JLI or Obers or Stormtroopers) while not being in green cover.

Blobbing makes no difference against this, except from the axis side where you will start getting aoe suppression as you gather up more and more grens. Two grens to suppress one squad, but three grens can already handle two squads.
29 Jun 2015, 19:20 PM
#114
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jun 2015, 19:13 PMCruzz


Glad to hear you're so good at this game you never have fights against 2 or more grenadiers (or JLI or Obers or Stormtroopers) while not being in green cover.

Blobbing makes no difference against this, except from the axis side where you will start getting aoe suppression as you gather up more and more grens. Two grens to suppress one squad, but three grens can already handle two squads.


So do you think it's because what they did with the data files or...? Because it seems weird that we got this accuracy/mg/suppression change and this just start occurring.
29 Jun 2015, 19:21 PM
#115
avatar of VonIvan

Posts: 2487 | Subs: 21

I have yet to encounter this. But if I do, I will remember that it's a feature, not a bug, working as intended. Thanks Relic. :foreveralone:
29 Jun 2015, 19:25 PM
#116
avatar of Cruzz

Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41



So do you think it's because what they did with the data files or...? Because it seems weird that we got this accuracy/mg/suppression change and this just start occurring.


Like I said, it's not about accuracy. Something outside of AttribArchive has changed in regards to suppression.
29 Jun 2015, 19:30 PM
#117
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jun 2015, 19:25 PMCruzz


Like I said, it's not about accuracy. Something outside of AttribArchive has changed in regards to suppression.


I'm probably crazy but if what your saying is the messed with the game engine they might have adjusted how accuracy works in relation to suppression because:

Game Data Organization Effort
Previously when we increased the lethality of infantry it was done with a blanket modifier of weapon accuracy and received accuracy. What we have done is adjusted the data so that the actual weapon stats are relative to its lethality. The performance of the unit and weapons are not changed. This is simply a data cleanup effort.

Removed accuracy weapon and receive accuracy modifiers that was used to increase infantry lethality and create a class type. Move respective values into the accuracy of the weapons and the size of the unit.


+

All HMGs
We felt blob counter units weren’t performing as well as we wanted and needed a performance boost to deal with Blobs of units better.

Incremental accuracy multiplier changed to 1.15
Incremental search radius changed to 10/12.5/15
Nearby suppression radius changed to 13 (except maxim HMG)
Min / Max Bursts unified


Tells me they might have tied suppression more to accuracy now, because if accuracy didn't affect suppression why did they make incremental accuracy a thing for HMG's?
29 Jun 2015, 19:47 PM
#118
avatar of iTzDusty

Posts: 836 | Subs: 5

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jun 2015, 19:13 PMCruzz


Glad to hear you're so good at this game you never have fights against 2 or more grenadiers (or JLI or Obers or Stormtroopers) while not being in green cover.

Blobbing makes no difference against this, except from the axis side where you will start getting aoe suppression as you gather up more and more grens. Two grens to suppress one squad, but three grens can already handle two squads.


Cruzz, you're a good player, and you should know what I'm trying to get at.

I'm not saying its something that should say, I'm saying its something that wont affect your matches in any meaningful way apart from the odd engagement.

And with that back handed compliment, yes, I'm good enough at this game (especially as Allies) to work around this suppression bug through the proper use of cover. It isn't affecting my matches and it shouldn't for you either.
29 Jun 2015, 19:48 PM
#119
avatar of iTzDusty

Posts: 836 | Subs: 5



And the times cover isn't available just have to suck it up and get suppressed?

Lol good logic, cover must be everywhere or you're a n00b for not using it. Nice...


So charging over open ground into.... open ground and getting suppressed after a bunch of volleys is suddenly game breaking?

Hokaaaaaay then.

Don't be blaming this bug for your losses.
29 Jun 2015, 19:50 PM
#120
avatar of iTzDusty

Posts: 836 | Subs: 5



I think you fail to understand what's actually happening here. Blobbing is nothing to do with it.


I completely know whats happening, I've experienced it first hand too.

What I do know thats happening, is that this bug isn't going to be making you lose matches. So wait till it gets hotfixed. In the meanwhile, bound between cover, you aren't going to get suppressed after 1 volley in open ground, it takes much more than that.
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