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russian armor

assault engineers

23 Apr 2015, 09:39 AM
#61
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17891 | Subs: 8



Im afraid people will never learn that :foreveralone:

So they'll forever fail and QQ, stuck in deluded conviction that pgrens are axis shock troops.
If they can't tell the difference between SMG and assault rifle damage profiles, they deserve to be trashed for being unable to use the unit properly.
23 Apr 2015, 09:45 AM
#62
avatar of van Voort
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2



Im afraid people will never learn that :foreveralone:


I'm sure you will keep teaching them
23 Apr 2015, 10:03 AM
#63
avatar of Ful4n0

Posts: 345

Good idea.. Let's make the faction with the strongest early game even stronger!! God... I swear some of these players... Unbelievable..


yes, adding a fifth man at vet 3 is buffing the early game of USF...sure!!!!

I swear some of these forum VIP users.... unbelievable..
23 Apr 2015, 12:27 PM
#64
avatar of Loki

Posts: 96

Vet 2 then. Lets do that and not get complicated. Grenades meh. Extra flamer is a cool idea but America's really the wrong faction for it. They already have a lot of the double weapons going on.

There not a combat unit right now. Striat up. Its is truly rare that are effective under fire.

I understand that buffing the early game of a faction with a strong early game seems heinous. But think of it, less riflemen. If it gets done right you will see less riflemen. You hate riflemen. We know you do.
23 Apr 2015, 16:19 PM
#65
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

Give every short range unit smoke grenades and 1.3 armour and we are fine.


PGs already have basically vet0 1.25 armor. At vet2, they get 1.76
Vet1 ability, medkits, could be replaced by smoke nades.

-.-.-.-.-.-.--.-.-.-.-.-.

Replace the vet3 +40% weapon accuracy at vet3 with a 5th man.

Why replace? Cause the extra man roughly translate on a plus 25/30% damage increase, faster repairs/construction and increase survivability.
23 Apr 2015, 17:21 PM
#66
avatar of Frencho

Posts: 220

People really don't realize how much of an impact an extra man gives to the Assault engineers. Make them immune to flamer crits and call it a day.

This is a textbook example of players not grasping the design & purpose of a unit, and asking for buff so they can use the way they want to (like a-move front-line infantry) instead of using them in their intended niche role.

AssEngies allready wreck anything close range and they vet up really fast, Vet 2/3 Five men squads would be a common sight. The last thing we want is 5 men Assault engineers blobs running rampant on open ground, they're not supposed to be riflemen.
23 Apr 2015, 17:26 PM
#67
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



Im afraid people will never learn that :foreveralone:


No, most people understand the intended roll of Pgrens, just that said roll is often better filled by simply not allowing enemy troops to get in close enough to be effective at medium range.

Pgrens in a vacuum are fine, but unless your doing fuel to munition conversion for shreks on them they are lack luster for what your paying for.

If they can't tell the difference between SMG and assault rifle damage profiles, they deserve to be trashed for being unable to use the unit properly.


To be fair this is a easy to make mistake considering Allies have 1 assault rifle in the BAR and that's it. Sturms also preform best in close range and they are the most commonly used StG unit.
23 Apr 2015, 17:41 PM
#68
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 1225

Jesus.
Assault Engineers are in a good spot now. Yes, they do not scale well, however, unlike their probably closest Axis equivalent (AssGrens) they retain utility until the very end of the game for two reasons:
1. They have flamers for garrison clearing.
2. Demos. Demos. Demos. This cannot be emphasized enough. Demos are filthy good if well utilised. They are a 90 muni almost guaranteed squadwipe if not discovered, and this investment is worth it every time. If you get lucky and your opponent blobs, they can literally win you the game in one fell swoop. Plus, they allow you to minimise harassment, if only because they will force the Axis player to use sweeper pios/Sturms for that task fairly exclusively, lest he risks losing squads without you ever commiting a unit of your own to the task. This is particularly strong against OKW for obvious reasons.
23 Apr 2015, 17:54 PM
#69
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2



No, most people understand the intended roll of Pgrens, just that said roll is often better filled by simply not allowing enemy troops to get in close enough to be effective at medium range.

Pgrens in a vacuum are fine, but unless your doing fuel to munition conversion for shreks on them they are lack luster for what your paying for.


Unit which can get easily 30-40kills with good micro and without upgrades is lackluster...


And let's wait for this 5 men Urban PzGrens squad with 3 STGs and 2 Flamers :snfPeter:
4 men AssaultEngi won't be considered as good enough.

23 Apr 2015, 18:48 PM
#70
avatar of AssaultPlazma

Posts: 300

Whats so bad about simply adding a fifth man default and adjusting damage,repair/build rate to compensate?
23 Apr 2015, 19:02 PM
#71
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 1225

Whats so bad about simply adding a fifth man default and adjusting damage,repair/build rate to compensate?

If it ain't broke in the first place, dont fix it.
23 Apr 2015, 19:05 PM
#72
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 1225



Unit which can get easily 30-40kills with good micro and without upgrades is lackluster...


And let's wait for this 5 men Urban PzGrens squad with 3 STGs and 2 Flamers :snfPeter:
4 men AssaultEngi won't be considered as good enough.


The better your opponent, the less the impact/cost-efficiency of PGrens, believe me, not to mention its a 340 mp investment that goes down to AOE just as easily as any Gren squad. Anyways, whats it with Urban PGren squads, never heard about that?
23 Apr 2015, 19:18 PM
#73
avatar of TheSleep3r

Posts: 670


The better your opponent, the less the impact/cost-efficiency of PGrens, believe me, not to mention its a 340 mp investment that goes down to AOE just as easily as any Gren squad. Anyways, whats it with Urban PGren squads, never heard about that?


Long story short: Relic designed a doctrine and never released it.
23 Apr 2015, 19:52 PM
#74
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2


The better your opponent, the less the impact/cost-efficiency of PGrens, believe me, not to mention its a 340 mp investment that goes down to AOE just as easily as any Gren squad. Anyways, whats it with Urban PGren squads, never heard about that?


Enough to say that Shocks look like kids with water guns when fighting against them :snfPeter:
23 Apr 2015, 21:08 PM
#75
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 1225

What could possibly go wrong?
23 Apr 2015, 22:09 PM
#76
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1


The better your opponent, the less the impact/cost-efficiency of PGrens, believe me, not to mention its a 340 mp investment that goes down to AOE just as easily as any Gren squad. Anyways, whats it with Urban PGren squads, never heard about that?


Urban Pgrens have more armor than most scout cars do. The doctrine was never released because I guess Relic didn't want to put in the effort to adjust the armor value.

Unit which can get easily 30-40kills with good micro and without upgrades is lackluster...


And let's wait for this 5 men Urban PzGrens squad with 3 STGs and 2 Flamers :snfPeter:
4 men AssaultEngi won't be considered as good enough.


That's the thing tho, you need to micro them hard and baby sit them while you don't need to do that for an additional gren squad or two.

The Sturmtiger is literally one of the best units in the game and nobody uses it because the micro you need for it makes any other unit look small time.
24 Apr 2015, 00:45 AM
#77
avatar of Gdot

Posts: 1165 | Subs: 1

Closinggggg timeeeee, you dont have to go home but please close this thread.
26 Apr 2015, 21:57 PM
#78
avatar of Trubbbel

Posts: 721

Panzergrenadiers are not a close range unit.

Im afraid people will never learn that :foreveralone:

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Apr 2015, 09:39 AMKatitof

So they'll forever fail and QQ, stuck in deluded conviction that pgrens are axis shock troops.
If they can't tell the difference between SMG and assault rifle damage profiles, they deserve to be trashed for being unable to use the unit properly.

Maybe they were fooled into beliving panzergrenadiers are at their strongest close range from looking at the stats?


26 Apr 2015, 22:01 PM
#79
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17891 | Subs: 8

Then perhaps someone should show them squad DPS comparisons at mid range with them.

Then compare it to mid range dps of shocks.

Maybe then they'll get the idea, but chances are low.
26 Apr 2015, 22:07 PM
#80
avatar of Trubbbel

Posts: 721

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Apr 2015, 22:01 PMKatitof
Then perhaps someone should show them squad DPS comparisons at mid range with them.

Then compare it to mid range dps of shocks.

Maybe then they'll get the idea, but chances are low.


Yeah didn't see anyone say "when a pgren and a shock meet, the pgren squad best stay at mid range since shocks are even stronger close range".

I saw something like

"Pgrens are no good at short range (assault)"
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