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OstheerFix!

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14 Mar 2015, 00:46 AM
#1
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

***Edited because a) The description was wrong anyway and b) I eliminated the noticeable changes. I had said in the description that I'd given the 222 the health of the 221 halftrack, but I forgot I'd backed out and just given it 240 instead of 200. Old changes are in red.***

In the spirit of trying to implement commonly suggested changes for the factions so that people can actually try them out, rather than endlessly debate, I've compiled two of the more popular demands for the Ostheer, an mg42 team with better suppression capabilities, and a 222 with staying power, into a simple mod:

OstheerFix!
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=407364332

This is a simple mod. It changes two units.
It increases the 222 Scout cars health by 40
Health from 200 to 240
Front Armor from 9 to 11
Rear Armor from 4.5 to 5.5


It increases the suppression capabilities of hmg42 teams. The following values were changed to match the bunker mg42:
Burst duration max from 1.75 to 2.2
Burst duration min from 1.4 to 1.75
Mid range burst duration from 1.25 to 1.5
Close range burst duration from 1.5 to 2
Far rate of fire multiplier from 0.9 to 1
Mid rate of fire multiplier from 1 to 1.1
Close rate of fire multiplier from 1.1 to 1.2
Horizontal traverse from 25 to 50


There is one value I am intrigued by: "Focus fire" which is set to True for bunkers, but False for weapon team MG42s.
The attribute editor describes it at whether fire is focused on the primary target or randomly picked from the weapon's scatter zone.
If these changes prove to change little for the weapon, I may revert the weapon to it's original state and switch the value to "True."

You may notice no changes to actual suppression values were made. The bunker mg42 and the weapon team mg42 actually have extremely similar suppression values, it's just the weapons team doesn't fire enough bullets in a burst to cause enough suppression.

This is the second of perhaps numerous tuning packs meant to help test how very minor changes impact gameplay. Sometimes just trying out a change ingame is superior to theoretics and heated debate.


There's been endless debate on these forums about often very simple changes that take mere minutes in the mod tools to create. Test it out for yourself and see how it changes the game for you.

Again, my bad about the wrong info, I forgot that the description in the workshop is overwritten every time you make a build.
14 Mar 2015, 02:39 AM
#2
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

-Did you at least increase the cost +130mp +5f for the 221? (to match the cost of the M20)

-First of all, you just don't double values unless you know what you are doing.
My main issue with MGs ATM is not offensive capabilities rather than survivability. While i'm not sure how much performance changes with those values, theres one that itch my sides.
Weapon horizontal traverse from 25 to 50. Remind you that we had already been almost at that point during the history of the game.

"Weapon horizontal traverse speed from 60 to 25"

14 Mar 2015, 11:48 AM
#3
avatar of NEVEC

Posts: 708 | Subs: 1

Overbuff in everything.
14 Mar 2015, 11:50 AM
#4
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17895 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Mar 2015, 11:48 AMNEVEC
Overbuff in everything.

That is a VAST understatement.

If DSHK got same treatment, you'd be able to take on medium tanks with it.
14 Mar 2015, 12:28 PM
#5
avatar of RMMLz

Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1

Thing that I agree with:

-222 tweaks: increase HP/Armor/Damage and greatly increase cost (like 250 MP, 35 Fuel)

-MG tweaks: Only the minimum burst duration and traverse speed. This should apply to most MGs. MG survivability is also another matter, specially for Allies. M2HB's gunner gets sniped with the first burst by obers, frontally.

The rest are Over buffs I think.
14 Mar 2015, 13:12 PM
#6
avatar of Brachiaraidos

Posts: 627

Welcome to a 240mp unit with a huge cone of fire that can now deny an entire lane of many maps against 1000MP+.

Balance so gud.
14 Mar 2015, 13:14 PM
#7
avatar of Burts

Posts: 1702

terrible changes.
14 Mar 2015, 13:17 PM
#8
avatar of Gluhoman

Posts: 380

14 Mar 2015, 13:32 PM
#9
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1

Those changes would make the scout car and HMG outperform the soviet equivalents by miles.
14 Mar 2015, 13:36 PM
#10
avatar of FaustCostBulletin

Posts: 521

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Mar 2015, 13:14 PMBurts
terrible changes.


Meh


Welcome to a 240mp unit with a huge cone of fire that can now deny an entire lane of many maps against 1000MP+.

Balance so gud.


jump backJump back to quoted post14 Mar 2015, 11:50 AMKatitof

That is a VAST understatement.

If DSHK got same treatment, you'd be able to take on medium tanks with it.


jump backJump back to quoted post14 Mar 2015, 11:48 AMNEVEC
Overbuff in everything.


14 Mar 2015, 13:38 PM
#11
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 1225

Meh, thats way over the top, no offence. While Ostheer is outright crap right now, balancing has to be done incrementally and carefully or we will just complain about the new 222 meta and bemoan the lack Soviet viability after then next patch...
14 Mar 2015, 13:58 PM
#12
avatar of Blalord

Posts: 742 | Subs: 1

how a scout car as resilient and same price as m20 will lead to a scout car spam ? O_o
Are you spamming m20 ?
14 Mar 2015, 14:13 PM
#13
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17895 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Mar 2015, 13:58 PMBlalord
how a scout car as resilient and same price as m20 will lead to a scout car spam ? O_o
Are you spamming m20 ?

Oh I don't know, because allied AT sucks in comparison and because 222 currently kills M20 AS WELL AS M8 WHICH COSTS 40FU with no effort?
Because M20 got all that armor and HP after expensive upgrade?
Because going for M20 means ZERO AT?
Because M20 doesn't have upgrade that rips apart light armor and increases potency against inf?
Balancing is for people who actually understand game, not for "lets up everything by 50%, don't change costs and call it balance LOL" fanboys.
14 Mar 2015, 14:23 PM
#14
avatar of Jadame!

Posts: 1122

Might as well give ost sniper mg42 to fire on the move, hp and armor of tiger ace and call him John Rambo.
14 Mar 2015, 14:50 PM
#15
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

The health increase is significant on purpose. I'd rather people see what these kinds of changes will make on gameplay rather than looking at numbers and thinking they've got an idea on how it actually works.

It's not like it doesn't take 30 seconds to change these values into more appropriate ones. I can make tiny imperceptible changes too, if that's more insightful for people. But if it's too much of a burden to see what's really being impacted in game, then there's never going to be worthwhile debate on balance.
14 Mar 2015, 14:57 PM
#16
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17895 | Subs: 8

So, have YOU played a single game with the changes yourself?

Doesn't take a genius to know that you literally need no other unit, because you increased DPS by about 100%, traverse by 100%, cost and pop by 0%, allowed it to fight off all types of infantry, regardless of distance or cover they are in and possibly forgot to change the name to Wunderwaffe squad that makes obers look balanced.

222 now can take on 3x more expensive M15 and T-70.

You literally increased random stats to your liking without having slightest idea what the end result will be or even checking it first yourself.

You just made 2 batshit OP, super cheap spammable units and are proud of the results, vetlolcake or jaigen would propose a marrige to you and alex would volunteer to be your best man.
14 Mar 2015, 15:00 PM
#17
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1

In my opinion the only thing the MG42 needs is a traverse rate increase and the global removal of the ability to throw (rifle)grenades when suppressed. Would also make other machine guns more useful in the process.
14 Mar 2015, 15:02 PM
#18
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Mar 2015, 14:57 PMKatitof
So, have YOU played a single game with the changes yourself?

Doesn't take a genius to know that you literally need no other unit, because you increased DPS by about 100%, traverse by 100%, cost and pop by 0%, allowed it to fight off all types of infantry, regardless of distance or cover they are in and possibly forgot to change the name to Wunderwaffe squad that makes obers look balanced.

222 now can take on 3x more expensive M15 and T-70.

You literally increased random stats to your liking without having slightest idea what the end result will be or even checking it first yourself.

You just made 2 batshit OP, super cheap spammable units and are proud of the results, vetlolcake or jaigen would propose a marrige to you and alex would volunteer to be your best man.


Actually I had. The description I posted was the wrong one since it gets overwritten when you update the build.

I eliminated the HMG42 changes except for the max burst. I removed the 2 armor boost and left the 40 health boost on the 222.
14 Mar 2015, 15:03 PM
#19
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1484

In my opinion the only thing the MG42 needs is a traverse rate increase and the global removal of the ability to throw (rifle)grenades when suppressed. Would also make other machine guns more useful in the process.


I agree, even with Maxims struggle with grenades tosses while suppressed.
14 Mar 2015, 17:11 PM
#20
avatar of MajorBloodnok
Admin Red  Badge
Patrion 314

Posts: 10665 | Subs: 9

Poll added - and now locked

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