I love AEs. They are so damn useful. They arent one man Terminator squads. I use them with Rifles early. Send in Rifles to draw fire and then move up your AEs to level them. This even works well against LMG grens. Once the AEs are up on the LMG grens they need to retreat or die.
Also AEs can actually do really good damage to Vet Neo Volks. Flamethorwers care not about your bullet dodging.
Assault Engineers UP
9 Feb 2015, 15:01 PM
#21
Posts: 1637
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
9 Feb 2015, 15:16 PM
#22
Posts: 708 | Subs: 1
Except pioneers do 21 DPS, Assault engineers do 48. More than twice. Get your facts straight please.
Grenadiers snipe them from distance before they achieve effective range, sturmpioneers wipe them out at any distance. They have 1.0 received accuracy and 4 man when assault grenadiers have something like 0.87 or 0.83 but far not 1.0 and 5 man. They are worse in everything and when obersoldaten or panzer 2 appear - they dead.
''Get your facts straight please''.
9 Feb 2015, 15:18 PM
#23
Posts: 1963 | Subs: 1
Eh, nope. Assault grenadiers receive 1.0 accuracy as well. Only the "boss" is special because he has 1.5 armour which is strange. Trust me, I've checked the files myself. The modifier only applies to regular grenadiers.
Grenadiers snipe them from distance before they achieve effective range, sturmpioneers wipe them out at any distance. They have 1.0 received accuracy and 4 man when assault grenadiers have something like 0.87 or 0.83 but far not 1.0 and 5 man. They are worse in everything and of course when obersoldaten or panzer 2 appear - they dead.
''Get your facts straight please''.
_____________________________________________________________________________
9 Feb 2015, 15:36 PM
#24
Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1
Grenadiers snipe them from distance before they achieve effective range, sturmpioneers wipe them out at any distance. They have 1.0 received accuracy and 4 man when assault grenadiers have something like 0.87 or 0.83 but far not 1.0 and 5 man. They are worse in everything and when obersoldaten or panzer 2 appear - they dead.
''Get your facts straight please''.
If you are using them as shock troops, you are doing it wrong and it's L2P. They are not meant to rush enemy's front line. If you use them to rush LMG grens or Obersoldanet, you are doing it wrong (Nothing can rush Obersoldanet in that matter, maybe vetted LMG paras or double m1919 vetted rifles).
Tnx steel for pointing out the received accuracy modifier.
"Get your fact straight please".
9 Feb 2015, 15:45 PM
#25
Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1
If you are using them as shock troops, you are doing it wrong and it's L2P. They are not meant to rush enemy's front line. If you use them to rush LMG grens or Obersoldanet, you are doing it wrong (Nothing can rush Obersoldanet in that matter, maybe vetted LMG paras or double m1919 vetted rifles).
Tnx steel for pointing out the received accuracy modifier.
"Get your fact straight please".
Should I flank them?
9 Feb 2015, 16:38 PM
#26
Posts: 708 | Subs: 1
If you are using them as shock troops, you are doing it wrong and it's L2P. They are not meant to rush enemy's front line. If you use them to rush LMG grens or Obersoldanet, you are doing it wrong (Nothing can rush Obersoldanet in that matter, maybe vetted LMG paras or double m1919 vetted rifles).
Tnx steel for pointing out the received accuracy modifier.
"Get your fact straight please".
Close range assault infantry which can't rush opponent not from long distance but even from medium. So good, 32 mapower to reinforce for mediocore support unit which is useless at any stage of game can kill only volksgrenadiers or pioneers if they don't have flamethrower.
"Get your fact straight please"
9 Feb 2015, 16:55 PM
#27
Posts: 1637
They are assault ENGINEER. That is their purpose. They arent SHOCKTROOPs or infantry replacment.
Could you imagine Shock Troops repairing a Tank? Building Caches? Building Bunkers? Building Demos?
I think its your expectation of them as a combat unit rather then a Combat support unit.
Like Pathfinders for example. They are expensive and weak on their own. But put them behind Rifles and they shine.
Same goes with AE. You can have a squad that does significant damage up close through skillful play early. Before BARs/LMGs. And then at the late game you have a building clearing/Demo specialist that gets Repair bonuses.
They are primarily Engineers. Its like the idea of an Assault Yeoman. If if we gave Yeoman Great weapons and told them to assault their job is still primarily to do paperwork...
Screen/Smoke/Flank and AEs rock. Run straight at em! and they suck.
Could you imagine Shock Troops repairing a Tank? Building Caches? Building Bunkers? Building Demos?
I think its your expectation of them as a combat unit rather then a Combat support unit.
Like Pathfinders for example. They are expensive and weak on their own. But put them behind Rifles and they shine.
Same goes with AE. You can have a squad that does significant damage up close through skillful play early. Before BARs/LMGs. And then at the late game you have a building clearing/Demo specialist that gets Repair bonuses.
They are primarily Engineers. Its like the idea of an Assault Yeoman. If if we gave Yeoman Great weapons and told them to assault their job is still primarily to do paperwork...
Screen/Smoke/Flank and AEs rock. Run straight at em! and they suck.
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
9 Feb 2015, 17:11 PM
#28
Posts: 17895 | Subs: 8
They are assault ENGINEER. That is their purpose. They arent SHOCKTROOPs or infantry replacment.
Could you imagine Shock Troops repairing a Tank? Building Caches? Building Bunkers? Building Demos?
I think its your expectation of them as a combat unit rather then a Combat support unit.
Like Pathfinders for example. They are expensive and weak on their own. But put them behind Rifles and they shine.
Same goes with AE. You can have a squad that does significant damage up close through skillful play early. Before BARs/LMGs. And then at the late game you have a building clearing/Demo specialist that gets Repair bonuses.
They are primarily Engineers. Its like the idea of an Assault Yeoman. If if we gave Yeoman Great weapons and told them to assault their job is still primarily to do paperwork...
Screen/Smoke/Flank and AEs rock. Run straight at em! and they suck.
I would LOVE to see your explanation for sturm PIONEERS performance and viability and ability to just charge up, no cover against conscripts or guards and mow them down.
Can't wait to see how entangled in double standards you are.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
9 Feb 2015, 17:19 PM
#29
Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1
AE are ok, but niche. They come in a commander with one useless artillery ability, an ok tank, a useless upgrade, and a useless tank. In return you get expensive engineers that can use flame throwers.
It has been said but with German long range DPS so high, AE rarely ever close with more than 3 men, and as such their DPS is not high enough. I liked before their nerf, since they are such a high mp bleed unit for the American.
It has been said but with German long range DPS so high, AE rarely ever close with more than 3 men, and as such their DPS is not high enough. I liked before their nerf, since they are such a high mp bleed unit for the American.
9 Feb 2015, 17:22 PM
#30
Posts: 1637
I would LOVE to see your explanation for sturm PIONEERS performance and viability and ability to just charge up, no cover against conscripts or guards and mow them down.
Can't wait to see how entangled in double standards you are.
I would be happy too. One is an Assualt Squad that costs more MP and is meant to be a gap filler for a squad that start with less AI then even conscripts.
The second is a supplmentary squad. Sturms cannot plant demos, cannot build bunkers, cannot build caches. They are less Engineers then they are AI units that are meant to be outscaled in the combat arena much like much cheaper AEs are.
Why do you expect to pay less MP for AEs and have them be equal too or superior to Sturms/Pgrens?
Edit:
The cost of a Sturm and a Volks cost as much as an AE and Rifles. Who do you think will win that matchup?
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
9 Feb 2015, 17:27 PM
#31
Posts: 1225
I would LOVE to see your explanation for sturm PIONEERS performance and viability and ability to just charge up, no cover against conscripts or guards and mow them down.
Can't wait to see how entangled in double standards you are.
Sturmpios are more expensive, more expensive to reinforce, take longer to reinforce, and are the sole early damage dealer in OKW, while Assengies complemenent the much stronger rifles. Also, if you charge straight up into Conscripts without cover, you will usually drop one model before you get reasonably close and than its all in the hands of the RNG gods. Generally, Sturmpios will force Conscript retreats but they will not trade costeffectively short of an ambush. If you charge into DP Guards from long range, you will lose. Hard.
When it comes to AE, I concur with may of my predecessors here, they are situational as a combat unit. Good on constrained maps, questionable ie. on Crossing. However, the demos alone are worth the price of admission. Demos get squadwipes, at a very reasonable cost, and will force your opponent into a very careful harassing/cap behaviour.
9 Feb 2015, 17:31 PM
#32
Posts: 49
Kat you should compare a weapon not a unit. I think if AE had Thompsons they will eat alive all inf they encounter on close range.
Moreover if Sturm Pio had a MP40 they will be the worst unit in the game
Moreover if Sturm Pio had a MP40 they will be the worst unit in the game
9 Feb 2015, 17:34 PM
#33
Posts: 708 | Subs: 1
They are assault ENGINEER. That is their purpose. They arent SHOCKTROOPs or infantry replacment.
Could you imagine Shock Troops repairing a Tank? Building Caches? Building Bunkers? Building Demos?
Does USF really need repair or caches builders units?
9 Feb 2015, 17:36 PM
#34
Posts: 1637
Does USF really need repair or caches builders units?
Thats the question for you. For some no. For others yes. I like their flexibility and I like the Bulldozer. If the map favors AE I will use them. If not I wont. Its not a no brainer. There are too many no brainer choices in this game at the moment. They are a choice you make. And up to you how you use them.
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
9 Feb 2015, 17:36 PM
#35
Posts: 49
Does USF really need repair or caches builders units?
Well if they do not have, there will be a lot of rage on Internet. I think they need all of that.
9 Feb 2015, 17:37 PM
#36
Posts: 1484
Assault Engineers are fine but we definitely need a MP reduction, I mean come on 280MP? I would rather build Rifles instead, maybe reduction to 240MP will suffice.
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9 Feb 2015, 17:45 PM
#37
Posts: 156
They are assault ENGINEER. That is their purpose. They arent SHOCKTROOPs or infantry replacment.
Could you imagine Shock Troops repairing a Tank? Building Caches? Building Bunkers? Building Demos?
I think its your expectation of them as a combat unit rather then a Combat support unit.
Like Pathfinders for example. They are expensive and weak on their own. But put them behind Rifles and they shine.
Same goes with AE. You can have a squad that does significant damage up close through skillful play early. Before BARs/LMGs. And then at the late game you have a building clearing/Demo specialist that gets Repair bonuses.
They are primarily Engineers. Its like the idea of an Assault Yeoman. If if we gave Yeoman Great weapons and told them to assault their job is still primarily to do paperwork...
Screen/Smoke/Flank and AEs rock. Run straight at em! and they suck.
"Assault Engineer" strongly implies assaulting is happening, not combat supporting. and for 280 mp I expect better assaulting. Mediocre Engineers would be a better title.
Soviet engineers do everything you just said only cheaper.
I'm not expecting a charge across open ground to work but a point blank rush should be more rewarding since that is their niche.
So far despite everyone's posts I still think they need a cost reduction at their current performance or a survivability buff for their current cost.
9 Feb 2015, 17:52 PM
#38
Posts: 1637
"Assault Engineer" strongly implies assaulting is happening, not combat supporting. and for 280 mp I expect better assaulting. Mediocre Engineers would be a better title.
Soviet engineers do everything you just said only cheaper.
I'm not expecting a charge across open ground to work but a point blank rush should be more rewarding since that is their niche.
So far despite everyone's posts I still think they need a cost reduction at their current performance or a survivability buff for their current cost.
I see how that could be assumed. But it just tells me that they are stronger engineers. Which they are. See example of Assault Yeoman. Affixing assault to a non combat unit shouldnt make them superior to a Assault Infantry unit for example.
This is actually fairly accurate. The US Airforce has Combat Communications folks. They are communication folks that have received SOME combat training. Will they replace infantry? HELL NO! Can they aim a rifle? Yes.
To each their own. I wont complain if their cost is reduced because I am very happy with their performance as it stands. Make them cheaper and its all gravy for my uses.
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
9 Feb 2015, 17:54 PM
#39
Posts: 156
Sturmpios are more expensive, more expensive to reinforce, take longer to reinforce, and are the sole early damage dealer in OKW, while Assengies complemenent the much stronger rifles. Also, if you charge straight up into Conscripts without cover, you will usually drop one model before you get reasonably close and than its all in the hands of the RNG gods. Generally, Sturmpios will force Conscript retreats but they will not trade costeffectively short of an ambush. If you charge into DP Guards from long range, you will lose. Hard.
When it comes to AE, I concur with may of my predecessors here, they are situational as a combat unit. Good on constrained maps, questionable ie. on Crossing. However, the demos alone are worth the price of admission. Demos get squadwipes, at a very reasonable cost, and will force your opponent into a very careful harassing/cap behaviour.
"Assengies complement the much stronger rifles."
That is the problem, for 280 mp assengies suck compared to other things.
Unless you meant something else. From what I can gather your logic is that assengies shouldn't be buffed since USF has too many strong other units. Well that logic is what leaves USF with the boring rifle spam builds you see now.
Like the 280 mp USF mg. somehow that is fair since rifles are strong. But I'll leave that complaining for another post. (but for real USF mp costs are too high).
9 Feb 2015, 18:09 PM
#40
Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1
You are missing the point guys. OK let's call them "4 dudez with grease guns" if the name is an issue for you. These "dudez with grease guns" have good utility (repair, demo charge, worthless mines, build cache) and can be upgraded with Flamers. They do good DPS (48 at point blank).
So, these "dudez with grease guns" are good for flanking enemy's MGs, specially in urban maps (Ettlebruck, stalingrad, and semosiky to some degree). They have good synergy with rifles (Smoke and send them in) and you can use them late game for repairs without abandoning your tank.
When I said they are not Shock units, I was not comparing them to Soviet Shock troops. I meant that they are not designed to frontally assault the enemy. They are doctrinal units which perform well. Every time I play USF in ettlebruck (2v2) I call them in and they perform very well, specially their demo charge.
Do not argue about their name, units are performing based on their role, price, weapon etc. You do not balance a unit because its name dictates it to do something else.
So, these "dudez with grease guns" are good for flanking enemy's MGs, specially in urban maps (Ettlebruck, stalingrad, and semosiky to some degree). They have good synergy with rifles (Smoke and send them in) and you can use them late game for repairs without abandoning your tank.
When I said they are not Shock units, I was not comparing them to Soviet Shock troops. I meant that they are not designed to frontally assault the enemy. They are doctrinal units which perform well. Every time I play USF in ettlebruck (2v2) I call them in and they perform very well, specially their demo charge.
Do not argue about their name, units are performing based on their role, price, weapon etc. You do not balance a unit because its name dictates it to do something else.
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