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Panther is under-performing for its cost

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__deleted__
29 Apr 2014, 06:29 AM
#21
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jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2014, 22:27 PMPuppetmaster



Could you upload the replay with 4 / 5 T-34s when you have one Panther out. I seem to remember you making various posts about Soviets having to adapt prior to this patch and yet all I have seen you do this patch is whine how bad apparently Germans are.


Well last night when I posted this my team lost 2-3 games in front of weaker opponents due to soviet armor spam. So I was a little upset. But it seems that the bugged panther has a problem indeed, so I guess I can just use something else.

After all, it's just an L2P issue, right? ;)
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The amazing Chandler
29 Apr 2014, 09:18 AM
#22
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100% Richtig Heini:-)
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MorgolKing
29 Apr 2014, 13:21 PM
#23
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Posts: 148

I think the Soviet AT buff and changes to blitz were adequate. Even with the Panther buff to penetration, it will still be underperforming.

The issue is survivability. Why buy a unit that expensive, which because of its cost will always come out when the Soviet player has a couple tanks and an AT. Even if it can penetrate more, it will die very quickly and there goes all your fuel investment.
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Aradan
29 Apr 2014, 13:28 PM
#24
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Posts: 1003

Panther is best allround tank in game. Strong, fast, high armour, non doctrinal. And you want more? In my team we use them offten and no problem. You need cover your tanks with PAK. We learn this in our games as Soviets (T-34 + ZiS-3).
I want to have the same chance, to win for each side.
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pigsoup
29 Apr 2014, 13:42 PM
#25
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jump backJump back to quoted post29 Apr 2014, 13:21 PMMorgolKing
I think the Soviet AT buff and changes to blitz were adequate. Even with the Panther buff to penetration, it will still be underperforming.

The issue is survivability. Why buy a unit that expensive, which because of its cost will always come out when the Soviet player has a couple tanks and an AT. Even if it can penetrate more, it will die very quickly and there goes all your fuel investment.


panther is still strong with good frontal armor and health only dropped one sixth. which is just enough to make it stop being 'ultimate dive-in&out tank without repercussions'.

although i do not think it's under-performing, 175 fuel is way too close to heavy call-ins. may be we just have to get used to the cost.
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coh2player
29 Apr 2014, 13:59 PM
#26
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The first Panther is around the same fuel price as the Tiger- just like pre-patch.

The Tiger is probably a better value so I think that the Panzer IV and Tiger will dominate.
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Aradan
29 Apr 2014, 14:10 PM
#27
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jump backJump back to quoted post29 Apr 2014, 13:59 PMcoh2player
The first Panther is around the same fuel price as the Tiger- just like pre-patch.

The Tiger is probably a better value so I think that the Panzer IV and Tiger will dominate.


You can have Panther sooner, then Tiger. And you can choose commander, as you want.
I want to have the same chance, to win for each side.
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The amazing Chandler
29 Apr 2014, 14:25 PM
#28
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Sorry, but all i am reading is: :*(:*(:*(, where is my Super-Panther? Mom, i want it back :*(:*(:*(

Was this to much? :D

How about "Adapt"???? This was germans favorite line before the last patch!! How about you try it your self now!

Kidding beside, give it at least 1 weak, try it out and then....
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WiFiDi
29 Apr 2014, 14:29 PM
#29
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jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2014, 16:52 PMMilkaCow
Wait for the fix on it's penetration. Unless that's in, all date / opinions are rather useless. :s


this until its fixed you can't really judge will crush most things still even with its borked stats.
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Porygon
29 Apr 2014, 14:59 PM
#30
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This panther cost, is a joke.
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Napalm
29 Apr 2014, 15:38 PM
#31
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The panther cost has done nothing to deter spam (defined as: greater than 5 units) in 3v3 or 4v4 game play. I'm finding the new build of the month is panthers combined with multiple tigers. Annoying.

Is anybody else finding that the SU85's enjoy spinning in circles?

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GustavGans
29 Apr 2014, 16:21 PM
#32
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jump backJump back to quoted post29 Apr 2014, 15:38 PMNapalm
The panther cost has done nothing to deter spam (defined as: greater than 5 units) in 3v3 or 4v4 game play. I'm finding the new build of the month is panthers combined with multiple tigers. Annoying.

Is anybody else finding that the SU85's enjoy spinning in circles?


So 5 panthers in a 3v3+ is considered spam? That's not even 2 Panthers on average per german player. o_O

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Tristan44
29 Apr 2014, 16:31 PM
#33
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Posts: 915

In 2v2s (at least with me) seems like the new German armor Korps is one elefant helped with tigers and paks. It's a rough crowd but when you have isu152 and is2 it's an awesome heavyweight bout. I like where the tank balance has gone, minus the bugged panther.
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MorgolKing
29 Apr 2014, 17:21 PM
#34
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Posts: 148

That's b/c you're reading with fan boy colored glasses. Feel free to explain why Panther needed a cost increase, hp decrease, change in blitz AND soviet AT buffed?

If you care to actually read you understand that most people agree changes were necessary but all these changes combined make the Panther useless unless you're playing noob 4v4 games. Which you may very well be.

Seriously, you don't have to be smart, just objective.

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Apr 2014, 14:25 PMThe amazing Chandler
Sorry, but all i am reading is: :*(:*(:*(, where is my Super-Panther? Mom, i want it back :*(:*(:*(

Was this to much? :D

How about "Adapt"???? This was germans favorite line before the last patch!! How about you try it your self now!

Kidding beside, give it at least 1 weak, try it out and then....
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Jaigen
29 Apr 2014, 17:29 PM
#35
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Posts: 1130

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2014, 17:54 PMOZtheWiZARD
Panther is more lethal than before now.
The difference is it's not damage sponge anymore. It's supposed to be used as hit and run unit.
If you can't utilise your Panthers you're doing it wrong.


How do you use hit and run when it has one of the lowest damage output in the game?
horrida flamma bella
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Jinseual
29 Apr 2014, 17:33 PM
#36
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Posts: 598

The HP nerf and extra price for the Panther was needed. However, the buffs on IS2 and ISU152 wasn't needed. They were already good weapons, but now the IS2 can wipe infantry a lot faster and the ISU152 is more or less the same just with a lot more armor. It's a long range artillery piece and should be encouraged to be used as such.

Panther should also have it's range changed to 60. Blitz has been overnerfed, I'm ok with the slower speed now that ram has been nerfed, but it should still have the accuracy buff, the German tanks can't shoot for shit as it is.
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Jaigen
29 Apr 2014, 17:33 PM
#37
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jump backJump back to quoted post29 Apr 2014, 13:28 PMAradan
Panther is best allround tank in game. Strong, fast, high armour, non doctrinal. And you want more? In my team we use them offten and no problem. You need cover your tanks with PAK. We learn this in our games as Soviets (T-34 + ZiS-3).


Your are still going to get better results with the p4. stugs and tigers. And it definitely is low on the damage output so its not an all rounder.
With the buffs of the soviet medium tanks they should have observed if the imbalance persisted before they went overboard with the nerfs.
horrida flamma bella
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OZtheWiZARD
29 Apr 2014, 17:53 PM
#38
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Posts: 1439

When will you get that Panther is now different tank than it was before? Exploit its speed, agility and range.
No comments on the price yet. Must play more games.
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Katitof
29 Apr 2014, 18:05 PM
#39
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jump backJump back to quoted post29 Apr 2014, 17:21 PMMorgolKing
That's b/c you're reading with fan boy colored glasses. Feel free to explain why Panther needed a cost increase, hp decrease, change in blitz AND soviet AT buffed?


Ohh thats quite easy to answer:

Because germans are not supposed to have any advantage over soviets late game and panther had ALL the advantages, speed, cost, AT, armor, health of heavy tank for only slightly more then KV-1 price.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Jaigen
29 Apr 2014, 19:40 PM
#40
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Posts: 1130

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Apr 2014, 17:53 PMOZtheWiZARD
When will you get that Panther is now different tank than it was before? Exploit its speed, agility and range.
No comments on the price yet. Must play more games.


A hit and run unit needs speed , frailty and high damage to qualify as a hit and run unit. The Puma for example is a hit and run unit. suffice to say it's still is a good tank . its simply not cost effective compared to other german tanks. combine this with the greater cost to tech and unnecessary nerf to brumbar you have no reason to tech to it and just wait until the tigers arrive.
horrida flamma bella
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