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What the .... is up with the germans ?

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3 Apr 2014, 22:33 PM
#141
avatar of Bravus

Posts: 503

Permanently Banned
Tanks in CoH2 are just as good at squishing infantry, the problem is that both sides have for their basic infantry have AT weapons which cause engine damage, so the whole affair is pointless.


The tanks in coh2 are just acceptable, but the RNG's GOD's do always the work...
3 Apr 2014, 22:38 PM
#142
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

Haha Unshavenbackman that would be cool, I'd love to play against wiking, but before he got banned from official forums permanently he weaseled out of every challenge, spitting excuses faster then MG42 bullets. Too bad he is like Chihuahua, hidden, shaking, all bark and absolutely no bite.
4 Apr 2014, 04:44 AM
#143
avatar of wongtp

Posts: 647

The Soviet losing the SU-85 means that he has no way to kill the PIV, Ostwind, Panther or Tiger from bleeding models and forcing retreats giving the Germans absolute map control. Without the SU-85 or Commander specific call ins, Soviets have no AT and no means of dealing with the German armour that forces them off the map and bleeds hard. The only other possible AT for Soviet is to plant lots of mines and hoping that the tank drives over the mine in front of an AT gun. Rarely does this actually work.

Looking at the German losing the PIV, Ostwind, Panther or Tiger means that the German has nothing to stop from the SU-85 shelling away at infantry missing 9 out of every 10 shots. The German is able to kill the SU-85 with a nice PGren with Shrek flank that can kill it in 3-4 volleys and if it gets caught by a faust it's easy pickings for the Shrek or Pak. Looking at the T-34's, T'34s actually have good anti infantry so can bleed and force off. However the difference is T-34's can and do drop to Shreks, Paks and Fausts. PIV's and anything above will not drop to AT nades and AT guns unless the German is bad, misplays and gets caught out of position or doesn't pay attention to his tanks.

Another thing to note is that Panzer Fausts will penetrate the frontal armour of a T-34 or SU-85 almost 100% of the time, where as the AT grenades with less range and requiring fuel to unlock have about a 66% chance to penetrate the front armour of a PIV or Ostwind, and a 50% chance to penetrate the Panther. Combining this with Blitzkrieg, Smoke, the higher health, armour and lower penetration of Soviet weaponry mean that controlling German armour is incredibly forgiving where as Soviet armour is insanely punishing and requires delicate and finesse micro.

Germans also have the option of going to PanzerWerfers to deal with Soviet infantry and AT guns after getting the Panther to deny the armour. So even if there are SU-85's on the field that killed a Panther the German can just ignore them by going for a heavy PGren with Shrek play or straight for Panzer Werfers. Katyushas are only on Tier4, so if the Soviet is stuck on tier 3 than Katyushas aren't an option. And it's so rare to see Katyushas anyway because Soviets need to spend all of their fuel on AT, where as Germans can spend Manpower(Paks) and Munitions(Shreks) to deal with AT keeping their fuel for other luxuries such as Panzerwerfers, Ostwinds or Brumbars for example.



+1

now with that soviet over reliance on su85, bring in the elefant.

zis is not forgotten, however neither is it terribly effective against german heavy armor. 57mm had AP rounds that would shit on panthers with 100% penetration, good firing rate and more importantly, increased damage.

but here, zis has to rely on ~50% penetration and a very poor firing speed. miss the 1st shot, bounce the 2nd, a full hp panther is now right behind your zis. while it has that nice novelty 60muni barrage, i'd rather lose that and get AP rounds and switch barrage for vet ability.
4 Apr 2014, 04:48 AM
#144
avatar of WiFiDi
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 3293

Fanboys vs fanboys here. Why dont you just game it out - switch factions and play. Ill watch it if you stream.


Vaz
4 Apr 2014, 07:20 AM
#145
avatar of Vaz

Posts: 1158

I'm def having a harder time with soviets now. Grens aren't invincible now, the problem is with the increased lethality it ends up being 1-sided. They didn't seem to make smart changes to accuracy based on distance. Relic released some DPS sheets and you can see how unfair it is from that data alone. German dps is usually 2x that of soviet, usually for the same price. LMG has better long range performance than svt and mosin, but not better than kar98 and g43.

That issue of Germany putting out 2x more dps than soviets is the problem. Germany had a lot of infantry durability before because of armor, but now they took that away and if anything soviets die even faster now, because the changes to the weapons made them better killers than they were before. Soviet death rate is so fast, even in cover that it's hard to maintain a lasting presence on the field.
4 Apr 2014, 08:00 AM
#146
avatar of 1[][]

Posts: 172

At the end of the day, all players should agree (hopefully) that gren>cons every time. Now, things like veterancy and cover are variables that determine the squads damage output and damage received and I believe relic should settle once and for all on that. No more tweaking.

I think the real issue here, and one that Ciez or OMGPOP brought up in an interview was the LMG damage output. Fix that.

But Note so much so that you ruin the characteristics of each army. There are some things which shouldn't be compromised. So if a guy comes on here complaining why his 5 unvetted conscript blob got torn apart by 3 vetted gren squads with LMG's..well tell him to get good.
4 Apr 2014, 08:29 AM
#147
avatar of TNrg

Posts: 640

Why bang your head against a brick wall? What is it that keeps people trying out new strats, posting these threads etc... There isnt a big reward waiting around the corner. Just switch faction.


Well it's much more of a reward actually trying to learn something new than just playing the ez mode and spamming grens and G43s like everyone else. I don't understand ppl who do that over and over again, it's boring as hell, you don't learn anything and... did I say it's boring?
4 Apr 2014, 09:06 AM
#148
avatar of dasheepeh

Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Apr 2014, 08:00 AM1[][]
At the end of the day, all players should agree (hopefully) that gren>cons every time. Now, things like veterancy and cover are variables that determine the squads damage output and damage received and I believe relic should settle once and for all on that. No more tweaking.

I think the real issue here, and one that Ciez or OMGPOP brought up in an interview was the LMG damage output. Fix that.

But Note so much so that you ruin the characteristics of each army. There are some things which shouldn't be compromised. So if a guy comes on here complaining why his 5 unvetted conscript blob got torn apart by 3 vetted gren squads with LMG's..well tell him to get good.


Its not just the LMG DPS, the G43 is also an issue and even the K98 is too strong as it has double the dps of the mosin up close and triple the dps at long range. So Soviets have no advantage at any range. The low Mosin dps and the fact that the Gren killing machines get even more ridiculous weapon upgrades breaks the game for me.
4 Apr 2014, 16:26 PM
#149
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

Well, I just had a game where my g43 grens frontally won effortlessly against Maxim, no rnade used.
No cover, maxim charged in(because I was capping and he needed LOS on me).

Yep, grens are perfectly fine and balanced unit and G43 isn't overperforming at all compared to guard DPs. :rolleyes:
6 Apr 2014, 14:02 PM
#150
avatar of VonMecha

Posts: 419

Panzerwerfers are not a good option ever. If you are in t4 build some #$&#& tanks. Sorry just had to get that out. Too many mates are building those when su 85s and t34s and even is2s are out on the field, then they complain they have no fuel for armor.

Panzerwerfers are not a good fit for t4.

If you wanna arty spam choose doc with arty. Rant complete
6 Apr 2014, 14:08 PM
#151
avatar of Puppetmaster
Patrion 310

Posts: 871

Panzerwerfers are not a good option ever. If you are in t4 build some #$&#& tanks. Sorry just had to get that out. Too many mates are building those when su 85s and t34s and even is2s are out on the field, then they complain they have no fuel for armor.

Panzerwerfers are not a good fit for t4.

If you wanna arty spam choose doc with arty. Rant complete


The problem then is not the Pazerwerfer, but the player. Panzerwerfers are fine to me, they are great at killing infantry / support weapons. I'm curious why you didn't write the same thing regarding the Katyusha, since it is also in t4 and has a similar cost.
6 Apr 2014, 16:01 PM
#152
avatar of VonMecha

Posts: 419

In t4 killing support weapons is the least of your worries.That is unless you are soviets facing Germans who tend to have more defensive lines late in game(support crews bunkers). Plus when you go t4 and the only tank you can build is 160 fuel, you can't waste it on a one barrage hit or miss weapon. 3vs3s and 4vs are different but in 2vs2 you cant spare 95 fuel for hit n miss weapons when kv8s and is2s and su 85s and t3485s are present or will appear in a few minutes. I have never seen a panzerwerfer rusher not be surprised that his/her army got killed/pushed back into base because they relied on hit or miss arty instead of tanks.
Phy
9 Apr 2014, 18:36 PM
#153
avatar of Phy

Posts: 509 | Subs: 1

Anyone who says axis are not op this patch should be in jail.

That's all.

Phy,

9 Apr 2014, 20:55 PM
#154
avatar of GuruSkippy

Posts: 150

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Apr 2014, 18:36 PMPhy
Anyone who says axis are not op this patch should be in jail.

That's all.

Phy,


While LMG42 and G43 are a little bit overperforming and PPSHs a little bit underperforming, the more I play, the more I think germans are not zomgwtfbbqOP, like everyone says.
9 Apr 2014, 21:01 PM
#155
avatar of 5trategos

Posts: 449

I really wish we had detailed win / loss stats since patch instead of having to rely on "feelings".
10 Apr 2014, 06:57 AM
#156
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 807


While LMG42 and G43 are a little bit overperforming and PPSHs a little bit underperforming, the more I play, the more I think germans are not zomgwtfbbqOP, like everyone says.


This is similar to what I feel and actually because of that now I like to play with soviets too, but shhh... be quiet or you will burn on a stake! :sealed:
10 Apr 2014, 07:03 AM
#157
avatar of NEVEC

Posts: 708 | Subs: 1

10 Apr 2014, 07:35 AM
#158
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 807

Oh, but I do, and now more often. See, this link misleads you a little. Here you are, these numbers are more accurate and they mean: 33 multiplayer games with soviets, and skirmishes are most definetly more. Don't know what's the problem with that link you showed.

http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198090176100
Phy
10 Apr 2014, 11:33 AM
#159
avatar of Phy

Posts: 509 | Subs: 1


While LMG42 and G43 are a little bit overperforming and PPSHs a little bit underperforming, the more I play, the more I think germans are not zomgwtfbbqOP, like everyone says.




This is similar to what I feel and actually because of that now I like to play with soviets too, but shhh... be quiet or you will burn on a stake! :sealed:


lol dont listen what people say just play and your opinion gonna be overpassed by reality.

Balance right now favors axis.

Axis is so easy to micro, even a chimpance can win in a tank battle with axis.

Axis fanboys, wake up, you're not good just play and op faction.

Regards,
10 Apr 2014, 12:00 PM
#160
avatar of Cardboard Tank

Posts: 978

So Soviets were overpowered for half a year - since the big MG42 nerf - and nobody of the guys complaining now cared when oorahing straight into MG42s and throwing a Molotov was the standard. Suddenly Germans have strong infantry and it´s blasphemy.

Some smaller adjustments could be made, but I think this version isn´t worse than any other before. I still shudder at the thought of early Shock troopers countering everything at the 3 minute mark.
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