7CP 2x T34/85 and 9CP 1x T34/85
18 Feb 2014, 04:33 AM
#21
Posts: 157
I'm trying to make sense as to why a unit that's just nearly the equivalent of a Panzer IV is 40MP and 15fuel more than it and 20MP and 10fuel more than the dual call in. I understand the dual call ins being more of a economic deal as a result, but the single unit comes rather late at 9CP. The recharge time also takes awhile for the single T34/84 to be an effective presence on the battlefield. I would've rather float and have the dual call in than the single unit, especially since the recharge time is nearly identical.
18 Feb 2014, 04:39 AM
#22
Posts: 301
I'm trying to make sense as to why a unit that's just nearly the equivalent of a Panzer IV is 40MP and 15fuel more than it and 20MP and 10fuel more than the dual call in. I understand the dual call ins being more of a economic deal as a result, but the single unit comes rather late at 9CP. The recharge time also takes awhile for the single T34/84 to be an effective presence on the battlefield. I would've rather float and have the dual call in than the single unit, especially since the recharge time is nearly identical.
It's a kind of magic.
18 Feb 2014, 06:13 AM
#23
Posts: 971
I'm trying to make sense as to why a unit that's just nearly the equivalent of a Panzer IV is 40MP and 15fuel more than it and 20MP and 10fuel more than the dual call in.
Panzer IV requires teching.
The dual call in probably will be changed in next patch, so is useless to discuss it right now.
18 Feb 2014, 06:17 AM
#24
Posts: 157
I've been having some nice games going from 2 76's into 85's. Or a t70 into a 76 into an 85. This is in 2v2 tho. Haven't tried 1v1s yet.
I Also think the 9 CP makes more sense for the pacing - I think that the dual call in will be pushed back to 9 as well, it makes more sense.
I Also think the 9 CP makes more sense for the pacing - I think that the dual call in will be pushed back to 9 as well, it makes more sense.
18 Feb 2014, 07:59 AM
#25
Posts: 157
I'm sure it'll be pushed back to 9CP. If the leaked patchnotes were anything to go by, the KV1 comes in earlier now than the T34/85 at 8CP. Both are nearly the equivalent to the P4, but I'd go as far to say that the KV1 is better at killing the P4 than the T34/85 is (higher ROF, more hp, better armor) and their AI is about the same. Unless they buffed the T34/85, I haven't heard any complaints about nerfing the T34/85 to warrant it being 9CP.
18 Feb 2014, 11:52 AM
#26
Posts: 337
I'm trying to make sense as to why a unit that's just nearly the equivalent of a Panzer IV is 40MP and 15fuel more than it and 20MP and 10fuel more than the dual call in. I understand the dual call ins being more of a economic deal as a result, but the single unit comes rather late at 9CP. The recharge time also takes awhile for the single T34/84 to be an effective presence on the battlefield. I would've rather float and have the dual call in than the single unit, especially since the recharge time is nearly identical.
T34-85 is much better against infantry than the P4. It also beats the P4 slightly in 1v1 (usually). It also has zero tech cost.
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18 Feb 2014, 12:07 PM
#27
Posts: 17891 | Subs: 8
Panzer IV requires teching.
The dual call in probably will be changed in next patch, so is useless to discuss it right now.
And 34/85 requiers doctrine and CPs.
So teching isn't really an excuse, especially if you have something as cost effective as tiger for only 200fu.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
18 Feb 2014, 12:19 PM
#28
Posts: 978
(I do not have a clue what happens in the next patch. I googled "Coh2 patch leaked 2014" etc. but can´t seem to find it. ^^)
Let´s see it from the bright side though. A single T-34/85 call in sounds good to me at first. That means more of the most iconic Soviet tank of the time in game. The developers obviously listened to the feedback of the community.
From the "Propagandacast" I heard that Shocks will be 2 CPs again.
The Tiger ace has been nerfed.
That sounds like a good patch to me.
Did they adjust the call in costs fro Tiger and IS-2 accordingly? If not 9 CPs for a T-34/85 is indeed too high.
Let´s see it from the bright side though. A single T-34/85 call in sounds good to me at first. That means more of the most iconic Soviet tank of the time in game. The developers obviously listened to the feedback of the community.
From the "Propagandacast" I heard that Shocks will be 2 CPs again.
The Tiger ace has been nerfed.
That sounds like a good patch to me.
Did they adjust the call in costs fro Tiger and IS-2 accordingly? If not 9 CPs for a T-34/85 is indeed too high.
18 Feb 2014, 12:22 PM
#29
Posts: 1439
True. No teching is required to get T-34/85 in any of the doctrines. Only CP and resources.
I too find it odd that single call in is more expensive than double one but this may be addressed in the upcoming patch so who knows.
I too find it odd that single call in is more expensive than double one but this may be addressed in the upcoming patch so who knows.
18 Feb 2014, 12:34 PM
#30
Posts: 971
And 34/85 requiers doctrine and CPs.
So teching isn't really an excuse, especially if you have something as cost effective as tiger for only 200fu.
It would be unfair that I could deploy a better tank than a PzIV at the same price without wasting fuel for teching. Also, not teching means one engineer not having to return to base and being free to cap, wire or lay mines, to sum up with the 90 fuel surplus.
Yes, you lock yourself in a doctrine and you need the required CPs, but the early game advantage this commander gives (Cons spam + PPsH + Radio Interception) makes somewhat balanced (at least on the paper, I still haven't used it).
Having doctrinal and affordable medium tanks makes a great sinergy with T1+T2 strategies, so I find balanced that little overprice in the single T34/85.
18 Feb 2014, 12:56 PM
#31
Posts: 4928
The only thing that bothers me is the inclusion of the T-34/85 in a doctrine, which pretty much guarantees we won't ever see it as a base unit.
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18 Feb 2014, 13:14 PM
#32
Posts: 1003
You cannot no teching and wait for 9CP.
This commander is similar german one with G43, strafing and 9CP Tiger (one eye guy). If you dont have PzIV, or Stug, you cannot stand versus Soviet horde.
This commander is similar german one with G43, strafing and 9CP Tiger (one eye guy). If you dont have PzIV, or Stug, you cannot stand versus Soviet horde.
I want to have the same chance, to win for each side.
18 Feb 2014, 13:15 PM
#33
Posts: 471
The only thing that bothers me is the inclusion of the T-34/85 in a doctrine, which pretty much guarantees we won't ever see it as a base unit.
Fairly sure that was guaranteed anyway...
18 Feb 2014, 13:25 PM
#34
Posts: 17891 | Subs: 8
It would be unfair that I could deploy a better tank than a PzIV at the same price without wasting fuel for teching. Also, not teching means one engineer not having to return to base and being free to cap, wire or lay mines, to sum up with the 90 fuel surplus.
Except, 34/85 is is not a better tank. One have hp to stand for 1 more shot, another one have AA and armor allowing to deflect more shots, provides some AA and have rocket engine at vet1, which can be bought.
They are pretty much on same power level, except one can arrive at 9-10minte and the other can be seen no sooner then 14 minute.
Yes, you lock yourself in a doctrine and you need the required CPs, but the early game advantage this commander gives (Cons spam + PPsH + Radio Interception) makes somewhat balanced (at least on the paper, I still haven't used it).
At the cost of not having elite infantry. Again, no advantage here, only different opening.
Having doctrinal and affordable medium tanks makes a great sinergy with T1+T2 strategies, so I find balanced that little overprice in the single T34/85.
You'll be getting a P4 at the time Panthers arrive and at similar to panther fuel cost.
Again, its not as pretty as you make it sound. You give up few minutes for not having a tank when your opponent does have one of exactly same strength already on field, for less.
I don't mind 34/85 being at 9cp, but I don't think 130 fuel is a fair price for something as strong as P4 that arrives much later.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
18 Feb 2014, 13:29 PM
#35
Posts: 4928
Fairly sure that was guaranteed anyway...
I had hopes
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
18 Feb 2014, 13:43 PM
#36
Posts: 971
You'll be getting a P4 at the time Panthers arrive and at similar to panther fuel cost.
Again, its not as pretty as you make it sound. You give up few minutes for not having a tank when your opponent does have one of exactly same strength already on field, for less.
I don't mind 34/85 being at 9cp, but I don't think 130 fuel is a fair price for something as strong as P4 that arrives much later.
Really, I don't know.
I've never played without teching , so I don't know the current timings in "gained CP vs enemy teching pace" to make doctrinal tanks viable as your only armor. Probably 9 CP is too late for a medium tank or 130 fuel is too expensive.
My point is that doctrinal tanks always should be more expensive than its normal counterparts, but in this case maybe the cost should be a bit lower than 130 fuel.
If that is the case, I think it will be eventually balanced.
Balance changes are one of the few things I can have hope for in this game.
18 Feb 2014, 13:44 PM
#37
Posts: 157
I don't think 130 fuel is a fair price for something as strong as P4 that arrives much later.
It's a weird decision. They essentially reverted the cost reduction for the T34/85 from the November patch (720 MP and 260 FU to 680 MP and 240 FU) back to the original price in the June patch (Price from 360mp/100 fuel to 360mp/130 fuel). I was under the impression they adjusted the cost in the November patch to make the T34/85 a more viable unit.
I still think the T34/85 should come in at the same CP as a KV1 and needs a price reduction in FU.
18 Feb 2014, 13:57 PM
#38
Posts: 1003
I still think the T34/85 should come in at the same CP as a KV1 and needs a price reduction in FU.
CP doctrinal units are now reworked, wait for patch.
And price T-34/85 (360MP, 130FU) is fine for me.
I want to have the same chance, to win for each side.
18 Feb 2014, 14:13 PM
#39
Posts: 17891 | Subs: 8
I still think the T34/85 should come in at the same CP as a KV1 and needs a price reduction in FU.
It will.
KV-1 will be moved at 9 CP.
Apparently, relic already forgot that KV-1 and T34/85 being at old 4 CP(new 8) was too late for them to hit the field, especially KV-1 that have a pea shooter and now they will come even later, all of that without changing normal teching peace at all.
If relic wants to move armor to later stage of the game, they should make it for ALL armor, not only doctrinal one that will greatly loose on its value against stock armor.
I'm really worried about soviet armor balance next patch, we might be going back to old, boring T1-T4 con spam into SU-85 if CP changes prove to be too harsh for god knows how long again.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
18 Feb 2014, 14:41 PM
#40
Posts: 134
IMO they once again completely neutered a soviet unit that didnt need it. The t34/85 was a meh callin to begin with. An anti tank tank that can't come close to going toe to toe with the big cats (hell it struggles vs p4) for about the same price is a joke. The only benefit it had is that you could get them before the big cats hit the field but that's out the window now. GG once more relic to making pointless changes to ensure continued axis superiority through all stages of the game. Well balanced indeed.
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