Soviet mines needs at least 2x cost for its effectiveness
7 Feb 2014, 11:10 AM
#1
Posts: 2779
It always squad wipe in one hit, how can such a cheap mine able to do that?
7 Feb 2014, 11:27 AM
#2
Posts: 17884 | Subs: 8
We all know it doesn't...
Stop exaggerating.
Stop exaggerating.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
7 Feb 2014, 12:00 PM
#3
Posts: 1355
For the first time i agree with "Katitof"!!!
:-)
I think the solution is to make german mines more appealing and efective!
:-)
I think the solution is to make german mines more appealing and efective!
7 Feb 2014, 12:03 PM
#4
Posts: 2779
It happens. Ostheer troops tend to stick together so it just squad wipe.
There is so many times I lose Grens and PzG to those cheap mine.
There is so many times I lose Grens and PzG to those cheap mine.
7 Feb 2014, 13:06 PM
#5
Posts: 1042
So yet another thing that prevents German tank rushes is something you're trying to nerf. Really...
7 Feb 2014, 13:08 PM
#6
15 
Posts: 786
sometimes they squad wipe, sometimes they kill a single model of an engineer squad
7 Feb 2014, 13:21 PM
#7
Posts: 140
It happens. Ostheer troops tend to stick together so it just squad wipe.
There is so many times I lose Grens and PzG to those cheap mine.
This is due to the bad AI of inf(OST suffer more), I have said this before... if they fix that a lot of problems will go away.
There is no need to nerf the mine, the problem can be fixed else where.
7 Feb 2014, 15:05 PM
#8
Posts: 134
It always squad wipe in one hit, how can such a cheap mine able to do that?
What was your response to the blitz thread? Was it "lol"? I think that applies here as well.
Russian mines squad wipe at times but often do not we just remember the squadwipes more. But upping the cost by 2x would be crazy.
7 Feb 2014, 15:18 PM
#9
Posts: 978
It´s not that Soviet mines are too cheap or too strong. It´s German anti infantry mines being almost useless. It should be possible to build those as single mines and there should be no sign marking them. Placing a single quadrant of them atm. is possible, but no option against an equal skilled player. The micro is needed elsewhere.
I wouldn´t even mind if their price went up to 25-30 munitions for a single quadrant.
I wouldn´t even mind if their price went up to 25-30 munitions for a single quadrant.
7 Feb 2014, 15:18 PM
#10
Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2
You mean the one I set to deal with tanks that gets set off by infantry?
Give me a proper At mine and I`ll pay more for it.
Give me a proper At mine and I`ll pay more for it.
Resident Soviet Whiner and Grand Master Bias Jedi; General Secretary of the Soviet Whine Hydra Collective; Axis Hating Sheeple; Allied Butt Buddy! Collect Them All!
Also the African Branch of TAB Bulletins
PS: The Italian Army fought with courage and skill
Also the African Branch of TAB Bulletins
PS: The Italian Army fought with courage and skill
7 Feb 2014, 15:18 PM
#11
Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2
You mean the one I set to deal with tanks that gets set off by infantry?
Give me a proper At mine and I`ll pay more for it.
Give me a proper At mine and I`ll pay more for it.
Resident Soviet Whiner and Grand Master Bias Jedi; General Secretary of the Soviet Whine Hydra Collective; Axis Hating Sheeple; Allied Butt Buddy! Collect Them All!
Also the African Branch of TAB Bulletins
PS: The Italian Army fought with courage and skill
Also the African Branch of TAB Bulletins
PS: The Italian Army fought with courage and skill
7 Feb 2014, 15:27 PM
#12
Posts: 108
It's me or ALL Porygon thread are about "Russian OP, Russian need nerf" etc.... Quite boring
You've got a problem with german i think. Change faction !
You've got a problem with german i think. Change faction !
7 Feb 2014, 16:02 PM
#13
Posts: 1130
complete squad wipes rarely happen. that said german mines need to be alterd. that 80 ammo AI is not only way to expensive but also far to large and a lot mines are theirfore not in a good position. most german players simply chancel after they build one block . the solution is to simply make AI mines one block and reduce the ammo cost to 20.
the teller mine while powerful is to bulky. in my opnion tellers should be reduced to 320 damage and and cost 35 ammo.
the teller mine while powerful is to bulky. in my opnion tellers should be reduced to 320 damage and and cost 35 ammo.
horrida flamma bella
7 Feb 2014, 16:10 PM
#14
Posts: 247
I think the problem is how german units behave, rather than the Soviet units. The combination of four man squads and horrible unit behaviour seems to be the main reason that german units get one-shotted by a Soviet mines, heavy mortars and heavy armour. Its annoying, and I think its bad for the overall gameplay, but I dont think the solution is nerfing Soviets. They somehow managed to make infantry behaviour worse in COH2 than in COH1, and I hope they will fix this, rather than work arround it.
7 Feb 2014, 16:49 PM
#15
Posts: 915
While I do think the soviet mine is a little to effective for it's price, The problem lies with 4 man squads and unit behavior as others have said. There is no German equivalent, I have no idea who made that design decision but it's a terrible one.
The Germans need a 40 muni anti personnel mine or something. I think te soviet mine should stay te same, however it shouldnt heavily damaged engines everytome. A 25 muni mine killing a tiger/panthers engine is to much. Engine damage maybe, heavily damage NO.
The Germans need a 40 muni anti personnel mine or something. I think te soviet mine should stay te same, however it shouldnt heavily damaged engines everytome. A 25 muni mine killing a tiger/panthers engine is to much. Engine damage maybe, heavily damage NO.
7 Feb 2014, 17:25 PM
#16
Posts: 42
I agree with the people that say the problem rather lays in German infantry behavior than in the Soviet mine itself. Where can we find more information about how the mines work (damage and criticals)?
Trust No1
7 Feb 2014, 22:19 PM
#17
Posts: 157
Unit behavior and AI pathing is the issue. If your units stepped onto 2 mines in a succession, that explains the squad wipe.
Increasing the cost? You're talking about nerfing one of the only effective and guaranteed AT weapons in the Soviet arsenal. And Soviets have to plant a crapton of them if they want any chance to go toe to toe with Ost armor. Nearly everything the Soviets have are AI based and not AT based. Zis<Pak; IS2<Tiger; T34/85<P4; ISU152<Elephant; etc, but they all > Infantry...which isa problem against Ost late game when it becomes mainly armor battles (not to say they should be equivalent to each other, but their units are near identical in roster type and CP requirements).
Increasing the cost? You're talking about nerfing one of the only effective and guaranteed AT weapons in the Soviet arsenal. And Soviets have to plant a crapton of them if they want any chance to go toe to toe with Ost armor. Nearly everything the Soviets have are AI based and not AT based. Zis<Pak; IS2<Tiger; T34/85<P4; ISU152<Elephant; etc, but they all > Infantry...which isa problem against Ost late game when it becomes mainly armor battles (not to say they should be equivalent to each other, but their units are near identical in roster type and CP requirements).
8 Feb 2014, 00:57 AM
#18
Posts: 4928
Unit behavior and AI pathing is the issue. If your units stepped onto 2 mines in a succession, that explains the squad wipe.
Increasing the cost? You're talking about nerfing one of the only effective and guaranteed AT weapons in the Soviet arsenal. And Soviets have to plant a crapton of them if they want any chance to go toe to toe with Ost armor. Nearly everything the Soviets have are AI based and not AT based. Zis<Pak; IS2<Tiger; T34/85<P4; ISU152<Elephant; etc, but they all > Infantry...which isa problem against Ost late game when it becomes mainly armor battles (not to say they should be equivalent to each other, but their units are near identical in roster type and CP requirements).
That's one of the major faults in the game that should be changed anyway imo. Why is one faction getting the best armour (with the exception of the SU-85) and AT while the other gets the larger squads and the best AI? Who thought that was a good idea? It should be spread equally among the two factions.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
8 Feb 2014, 01:20 AM
#19
Posts: 157
Which I always thought was a funny design decision. That's why you get squad wipes on the Ost side as Soviets because they have a max of 4 models per squad. You'd think AI would be a German priority when Russians are throwing bodies with their 6 model squad armies. ISU-152 is nicknamed the "beast killer," and imagine if it lived up to it's name ingame. Instead you have this:
Elefant is 76% better at killing tanks compared to ISU-152 (elefant also has double armor and 33% more health)
Elefant deals 36.4 DPS at 170 Pen
ISU-152 deals 23.4 DPS at 150 Pen
Elefant kills ISU-152 is 30 sec
ISU-152 kills elefant in 140 Sec
Elefant has double armor and 33% more health
Elefant costs 9% less than the ISU-152
(if Kyo Gnome's math is correct; source: http://community.companyofheroes.com/forum/company-of-heroes-2/coh-2-balance-feedback/21960-statistics-and-comparison-of-at-weaponry)
Great AI unit, but I always felt the KV2 was a better AT unit than the ISU (unless you're a microing god...killing a KV2 in a duo with a sliver of health Panther felt like a great achievement). When you see Soviet's (which I am as well) play aggressively, this is one of the reasons. They don't want to drag the game any longer than they should; or face heavy AT units late game.
Elefant is 76% better at killing tanks compared to ISU-152 (elefant also has double armor and 33% more health)
Elefant deals 36.4 DPS at 170 Pen
ISU-152 deals 23.4 DPS at 150 Pen
Elefant kills ISU-152 is 30 sec
ISU-152 kills elefant in 140 Sec
Elefant has double armor and 33% more health
Elefant costs 9% less than the ISU-152
(if Kyo Gnome's math is correct; source: http://community.companyofheroes.com/forum/company-of-heroes-2/coh-2-balance-feedback/21960-statistics-and-comparison-of-at-weaponry)
Great AI unit, but I always felt the KV2 was a better AT unit than the ISU (unless you're a microing god...killing a KV2 in a duo with a sliver of health Panther felt like a great achievement). When you see Soviet's (which I am as well) play aggressively, this is one of the reasons. They don't want to drag the game any longer than they should; or face heavy AT units late game.
8 Feb 2014, 02:42 AM
#20
Posts: 4928
I wouldn't oppose 5 models for Grendiers, although armour would have to be tweaked accordingly. Assault Grenadiers are proof that 5 men squads are so much less likely to wipe than 4 men squads.
I'm not sure how you'd balance an ISU that can kill infantry and armour with ease, even though that's what it was famous for..
I'm not sure how you'd balance an ISU that can kill infantry and armour with ease, even though that's what it was famous for..
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
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