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Why is IS2 so godly, and tiger is so shitty?

12 Jan 2014, 09:48 AM
#61
avatar of BeltFedWombat
Patrion 14

Posts: 951

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Jan 2014, 22:57 PMStoffa


Youre insinuating the IS2 isnt as good as everyone says because it can be taken out by a teller and bombing strike? Thats totally irrelevant.


Why?

I may damn well hope the other IS2 went down to a Tiger and Panther, if it didnt it would be ridiculous.


It took one shot from the Tiger and one from the Panther and was destroyed. I didn't say I expected it to best them, oc, but it lasted about five seconds. And it's apparently the sov breakthrough uber-OP wunderweapon.

Oh, and is there any need to be such a dick in the tone of your posts?
12 Jan 2014, 09:51 AM
#62
avatar of Marcus2389
Developer Relic Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 4559 | Subs: 2

It's mathematically impossible to kill an IS-2 with a Tiger shot and a Panther shot, if they penetrate both they would do a total 320 dmg. the IS-2 has 960HP if I remember correctly :)
12 Jan 2014, 11:11 AM
#63
avatar of BeltFedWombat
Patrion 14

Posts: 951

* shrugs * That's what it looked like. Will seek replay. In any case, by the time the IS-2 had travelled from my base on Rzhev to the house just outside, near the lake, it was toast.
12 Jan 2014, 14:06 PM
#64
avatar of Cyridius

Posts: 627

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Jan 2014, 04:18 AMPorygon
First, I am not talking about the OP Ace one, and Relic should not buff IS2 to insane level because of the Ace.

Tiger should be fearsome, but now it's performance is just like a fatter overpriced panzer 4, without decent penetration and splash damage, slow firing and slow maneuvering. Stalin infantry can even dance in front of it.

IS2 can now one shot squad wipe, one shot killing PAK, that's not reasonable. Even the Tiger Ace cannot do that.


People complained more about the IS2 and Relic has had a history of incompetent balance designers.

That should just about cover it.
13 Jan 2014, 15:28 PM
#65
avatar of SgtBulldog

Posts: 688

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Jan 2014, 13:19 PMwongtp
i think im close to giving up on this forum, this forum is more pro german than pro balance.


I'm with you on this. I read these forum sections less and less for that reason.

It's one constant cry for nerf of the soviet units allthough german players are in majority most of the time in automatching.

I don't know what the thing is with this widespread preference for the german faction. It was like this with COH1 as well, but never as bad as it has become here.
13 Jan 2014, 19:03 PM
#66
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2



I'm with you on this. I read these forum sections less and less for that reason.

It's one constant cry for nerf of the soviet units allthough german players are in majority most of the time in automatching.

I don't know what the thing is with this widespread preference for the german faction. It was like this with COH1 as well, but never as bad as it has become here.


I would say its more 50-50 now, a bit in favour of SU (at least on 1v1 and 2v2).

We need both kind of mindsets: the fanboys (SU n OS) and the "normal balance" people.
13 Jan 2014, 19:58 PM
#67
avatar of VonMecha

Posts: 419

Well the official forums are a Sovfanboy lovefest. You will get all the "buff the isu 152/su-85/t34/t34-85s etc etc" you can eat, all whilst having plenty heapings of nerf the Elefant,Tiger,Pioneers etc etc... that your belly can handle
13 Jan 2014, 20:05 PM
#68
avatar of Greeb

Posts: 971


Panzerwerfer also does that and is much cheaper.


MortarHT can do it too, and it is even more cheaper.
13 Jan 2014, 20:06 PM
#69
avatar of VonMecha

Posts: 419

People prefer Germans for the cool factor. Don't understand why people can't easily come to that conclusion. People still played P.E. after they were completely neutered with the nerf bat. I play mostly Germans because thats the faction I wanted to master first. But the snobbery of people who play mainly Soviets made me never want to play them... ever... ever.. ever. I mean if anyone has opinions on a actual or perceived balance issue in favor of the Soviets, some players act as if they were physically molested.
13 Jan 2014, 20:22 PM
#70
avatar of BeltFedWombat
Patrion 14

Posts: 951

It's easy for me to see both factions are balanced: whichever one I play I get spanked, pwned, eviscerated. So they are equal MVGame
14 Jan 2014, 09:07 AM
#71
avatar of DietBrownie

Posts: 308

50 percent of people think it's overpowered while another 50 percent of people think it's not overpowered. We have finally achieved balance.


As for the forum, ever since Nullist left, it seems like the forum has been much more unbiased and threads don't result in a internet fist fight. A lot of the posts that are discussing balance are about exploits now, not the core balance.
14 Jan 2014, 10:08 AM
#72
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439

What happened to Nullist anyway?
His disappearance was rather sudden.
14 Jan 2014, 10:27 AM
#73
avatar of Ztormi

Posts: 249

What happened to Nullist anyway?
His disappearance was rather sudden.


He was banned.
14 Jan 2014, 10:29 AM
#74
avatar of gokkel

Posts: 542

People prefer Germans for the cool factor. Don't understand why people can't easily come to that conclusion. People still played P.E. after they were completely neutered with the nerf bat. I play mostly Germans because thats the faction I wanted to master first. But the snobbery of people who play mainly Soviets made me never want to play them... ever... ever.. ever. I mean if anyone has opinions on a actual or perceived balance issue in favor of the Soviets, some players act as if they were physically molested.


Same was the case in Dawn of War 2, where Space Marines were always the most played race no matter how the balance state currently was.

You may see some tendencies about balance changes when you look at what factions get played the most currently, but you have to take into account that factions have an intrinsic popularity factor so the game is not necessarily balanced because both factions are played by an equal amount of players.

In this game it is obviously even more difficult to read the numbers because you have only two factions and there are no mirror games. And you don't have a ladder which combines both factions, so you cannot see if a faction at the top of the ladder is overrepresented.
14 Jan 2014, 10:57 AM
#75
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 992

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jan 2014, 10:29 AMgokkel

In this game it is obviously even more difficult to read the numbers because you have only two factions and there are no mirror games. And you don't have a ladder which combines both factions, so you cannot see if a faction at the top of the ladder is overrepresented.


I play only team games. In 2v2 is it 50:50, but 3v3 and 4v4 is 70% OST.
14 Jan 2014, 11:46 AM
#76
avatar of James Hale

Posts: 574

Nullist finally achieved Ascendancy, from which there is no coming back. He is but stardust now; the smiles of children and the laughter of the gods.

He shall grow not old, as we that are left at COH2.org grow old:
Age shall not weary Him, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning,
We will remember Him.


Now that's out of our collective systems, let's stop chatting about banned users (it's not just in this thread, but I thought I'd mention it here) and, ideally, forum bias. There's a reason Nullist was banned; distracting from the subject of a number of threads (including this one, and he's not even in it) and becoming the focal point of flame wars.

For my part, I feel the IS-2 is really good now. It has good frontal armour, a massive gun that wreaks carnage and is reasonably priced. I think the ISU-152 could perhaps have its fuel price dropped accordingly, and the Tiger is maybe a bit cheap at 720/200. I think 680/225 would perhaps be a slightly better balance, but I don't play competitive automatch games and so I'm not best placed to judge.
14 Jan 2014, 12:54 PM
#77
avatar of wongtp

Posts: 647

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jan 2014, 10:29 AMgokkel


Same was the case in Dawn of War 2, where Space Marines were always the most played race no matter how the balance state currently was.


i miss fighting against a coordinated team of 3 orks. cant believe i sunk thousands of hours into all 3 expansions, i just hope relic dont stop making more of it, dont pass it on to creative assembly!

anyways, the is2 is a great tank, good armour and sometimes a 1 shot wonder(i always smile when it 1 shots a vet3 infantry squad), except german tanks are more focused on killing tanks. so putting them side by side, is2 might seem a little bad, but thats okay.

isu152 and elefants however are a point of concern. the elefant is virtually impregnable by soviet conventional tactics and creates a HUGE tank denial. the only few ways to bring it down are 50mins of ptrs fire, lucky IL2 bomb strikes or maybe the 203mm precision(which i rather not buy) strikes. i alway have no idea what to do when it pops out in a 2v2.

same with isu152. this is a wipe everything unit in a MASSIVE range, can crew shock vehicles and snipe infantry. bringing a gun comparable to the is2, except with the range of a ICBM.

these 2 units are god damn difficult to balance imo. i would rather if they lose their artillery range, given a little more speed and traverse and put them in assault gun ranges comparable to su85s, of course with a fuel reduction.
14 Jan 2014, 12:57 PM
#78
avatar of James Hale

Posts: 574

Range of an ICBM. :lol:
14 Jan 2014, 15:20 PM
#79
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2691 | Subs: 1

The ISU-152 requires a lot of support to function properly. Germans have, unlike the soviets, plenty of main battle tank options that can engage and circle an ISU-152 and take it out in a timely fashion. This is not only do to the germans superior penetration and dps values on their main battle tanks, but also due to the ISU-152s weak side/rear armor.

The elephant on the other hand is much more difficult to take out. The soviets main tank destroyer does not have a turret and is an easy target, and their main battle tank has low penetration and DPS. Even when flanked by a T34, the elephants thick armor and massive HP ensures that you have plenty of time to take out the T34 before the elephant goes down, even when caught unsupported.
14 Jan 2014, 15:40 PM
#80
avatar of Shell_yeah

Posts: 258

The elephant can be countered by at guns, but the problem with this doctrine is that it also has stuka bomb which is always used to destroy at guns. No way you can reposition at guns in time without losing one of them.
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