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Royal engineer Recovery Squad

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1 May 2022, 21:50 PM
#121
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13353 | Subs: 1

And, the two last picture are actually proving a scenario of Uc drop troop going wrong which i had mentioned in #42. The appearance of the second player completely ruined that ukf's drop troop attempt. Ukf may have force a stum of the yellow okw player to retreat but then all three of his unit will have to retreat due to the blue okw. Axis, there for can cap the mid Vp while ukf is most likely hadnot cap anything to rush frontline and now on retreating meaning further delay in caping. The delay in caping will have to be made up by teammates, leading to reduce frontline strength in their sector or it will affect income. The blue Okw may had to abandon his cap but they still win the engagement and have time to adjust.
=> Case of failed strat.


Now you are posting guesses on what happened in that game?


Only you simply mistaken because allies have no issues of map control while placing hmg in key location and controlling the left VP and MU while OKW control 1 fuel/1point/1vp on the same side:
https://www.coh2.org/file/20190/rore.jpg

(And UKF forced 2 retreats 1 VG and 1 ST)

As for the UKF unit they are back in the fight in full health and do another infatry drop the third in 4.5 minutes.

https://www.coh2.org/file/20191/rore2.jpg

The strategy worked fine and so did the infatry drops.

The game was actually won before minute 14 when both okw truck where destroyed at which point they surrendered.
https://www.coh2.org/file/20192/rore3.png

I would say it was pretty successful overall and UKF using the strategy is the one with the higher score.

Now unless we have access to the replay, a couple of picture basically prove nothing since I can provide some pic of dropping troop go horribly wrong.

So it is safe to say:
1. Still not a popular tactic by anymean.
2. Faust being not available at the fist contact is not an issues.
3. Drop troop is always risky

If you have any actual data about how "popular" or "unpopular" it is feel free to share but this is not really a popularity contest.

Glad to see that we agree that faust/AT grenades are not available as some people have claimed.

In these case we can see 5 successful drops working fine with little actual risk so there is nothing to back up the claim that it is always risky.

(edited do add the second post)
2 May 2022, 02:03 AM
#123
avatar of Support Sapper

Posts: 1219

jump backJump back to quoted post1 May 2022, 21:50 PMVipper

Now you are posting guesses on what happened in that game?


Only you simply mistaken because allies have no issues of map control while placing hmg in key location and controlling the left VP and MU while OKW control 1 fuel/1point/1vp on the same side:
https://www.coh2.org/file/20190/rore.jpg

(And UKF forced 2 retreats 1 VG and 1 ST)

As for the UKF unit they are back in the fight in full health and do another infatry drop the third in 4.5 minutes.

https://www.coh2.org/file/20191/rore2.jpg

The strategy worked fine and so did the infatry drops.

The game was actually won before minute 14 when both okw truck where destroyed at which point they surrendered.
https://www.coh2.org/file/20192/rore3.png

I would say it was pretty successful overall and UKF using the strategy is the one with the higher score.


If you have any actual data about how "popular" or "unpopular" it is feel free to share but this is not really a popularity contest.

Glad to see that we agree that faust/AT grenades are not available as some people have claimed.

In these case we can see 5 successful drops working fine with little actual risk so there is nothing to back up the claim that it is always risky.

(edited do add the second post)


The score broad clearly show that axis play very badly. Allies can win using any tactics they want with such a skill gap. This isn't a popular contest but you made the claim that Drop tactic is used in high lv gameplay. This match doen't look like high lv unless you provide some info of those player or better the replay itself. If the replay are available, i can event gather some fr and make a full analysis, but without it i hardly see any point can be made from some random picture.

And, the thread focus on droping infantry as an opening strat. From what you described about the second match, force retreat two enemy unit but at the same time having to retreat all three of your own unit is hardly a success by any mean. Those drop happened 4-5 minute into the game is not very related, especially when axis fall for the same trick they already met again.

Edit: he fact that the second okw player show up and force all three ukf units to retreat is a very clear prove of drop troop's risky natural as i described in #42 :"there are more thing shooting at you. There are many things can go wrong, for example: you arrive a bit late and the enemy have engought muni for faust, you encounter 2x mg42, your enemy's teammate show up, you encounter dual kubels, etc.".

In this case, the mere appearance of the second player already ensure the drop wont gain any ground and the second pic show that both UC and section is on very low hp. If okw coordinate better they can event destroy the uc or got a wipe.

If all above are "little actual risks" to you then it is you enlisted your opinion.
2 May 2022, 03:57 AM
#124
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 644

jump backJump back to quoted post1 May 2022, 19:26 PMVipper

I have not described this issue as game breaking in any of my posts so I am not sure why people keep repeating that.


Then did you bother making a thread on this if it is not gamebreaking or OP as you claim. You are obviously crying about it in your earlier posts. Learn to adapt and stop being bad. Its a L2P issue. Just because you lost doesn't mean its a balance issue.





jump backJump back to quoted post1 May 2022, 19:26 PMVipper

It still allows UKF to bring more troops than other factions in the early engagements giving them numeric superiority. That allows them to gain early control while the faction can defend effectively.


So it is OK for OKW to have numerical superiority, superior map control and the one semi-decent thing from UKF (which is only good for the first 2 minutes at serious risks) instantly calls for a nerf in your eyes? Biased Much? You are not interested in balance in the slightest.




jump backJump back to quoted post26 Apr 2022, 16:16 PMKatukov


dumb retard trying to gaslight people like always

they are not overpowered for their cost and work like every OTHER minute 0 SMG squad


Well all he does is troll. He needs to get banned again.





Assault Engineers spawn with 1.0 target size, not 0.9.


But I have to agree here with the people that you are exaggerating completely about this strat, Vipper.

Yes, you can force retreats against lonely squads, even make them waste a faust with the fast repair speed of RoRe. But lets talk about the Elephant in the room now:

1) against a Kubel + sp, this strat is an absolute joke, and many people combine these 2 units at start

2) In teamgames, good axis players will bunch up their army as soon as possible believe it or not. Especially when they expect a scout car. And then this strat sucks as well... nobody is stupid enough to walk on the corner of the map with a lonely gren/volk in exposed positions when they know what you're trying to do here

3) Forcing a retreat on 1 squad doesnt matter, and afterwards smart axis players will not let that happen again


10,000%




If it is not game breaking then why does this thread even exist ?



Good Question, should be closed.
2 May 2022, 07:48 AM
#125
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13353 | Subs: 1



The score broad clearly show that axis play very badly. Allies can win using any tactics they want with such a skill gap. This isn't a popular contest but you made the claim that Drop tactic is used in high lv gameplay. This match doen't look like high lv unless you provide some info of those player or better the replay itself. If the replay are available, i can event gather some fr and make a full analysis, but without it i hardly see any point can be made from some random picture.

And, the thread focus on droping infantry as an opening strat. From what you described about the second match, force retreat two enemy unit but at the same time having to retreat all three of your own unit is hardly a success by any mean. Those drop happened 4-5 minute into the game is not very related, especially when axis fall for the same trick they already met again.

Edit: he fact that the second okw player show up and force all three ukf units to retreat is a very clear prove of drop troop's risky natural as i described in #42 :"there are more thing shooting at you. There are many things can go wrong, for example: you arrive a bit late and the enemy have engought muni for faust, you encounter 2x mg42, your enemy's teammate show up, you encounter dual kubels, etc.".

In this case, the mere appearance of the second player already ensure the drop wont gain any ground and the second pic show that both UC and section is on very low hp. If okw coordinate better they can event destroy the uc or got a wipe.

If all above are "little actual risks" to you then it is you enlisted your opinion.

Glad to see that you acknowledge that your guesses about map control and how the game progressed in post 120 where simply wrong.
2 May 2022, 09:11 AM
#126
avatar of Support Sapper

Posts: 1219

jump backJump back to quoted post2 May 2022, 07:48 AMVipper

Glad to see that you acknowledge that your guesses about map control and how the game progressed in post 120 where simply wrong.


The only thing i was wrong is about how bad the axis team was doing that game. Otherwise, the axis is, in fact, gain control of the mid vp as i said. Furthermore, the minimap at the EXACT moment of the droping and retreating of that UKF is hidden so i cant make sure but it is most likely the ukf player had not made any cap upto that point since all of his unit is at the same place. The third picture you post is at 3:20 which already show that allies is being pushed back on the right side and that UKF player is still recover at his base after the mass retreat with only 1 unit on the frontline (likely his 4th units). And in #120 i also said teammate will have to made up for that UKF player, look like they did and score broad show that two soviet have to do twice as much capping. I know that score broad is for the full match but upto 4 minute, three other player should have done more capture that the UKF doing drop troop.

The map control issue present clearer in the previous game on red ball, btw. In the picture you named "rore5", UKF is doing his second drop, at that moment axis had completed caping their side of the map and have at least 1 fuel while allies still have 1 point not capped and it is in that UKF player's sector.
2 May 2022, 09:26 AM
#127
avatar of minhuh064

Posts: 63

How hard is it for you to drop us the replay of that match?
2 May 2022, 09:27 AM
#128
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 776 | Subs: 1

How hard is it for you to drop us the replay of that match?



true


vipper post a replay of the match or call a mod to thread lock
2 May 2022, 09:38 AM
#129
avatar of Support Sapper

Posts: 1219




true


vipper post a replay of the match or call a mod to thread lock


I have to keep reminding myself of how funny it is. Like, a couple of sceenshot from a game of some Chinese playing axis poorly and Uc drop troop with RRo.e suddenly go from a troll strat to a fully viable competitive tactic. One of those okw have total of about 14 kill in a 14+ minutes long match, lol.

Edit: The chinese player was actually among the better part of the axis team and i mean no offensive, sorry.
2 May 2022, 09:44 AM
#130
avatar of Support Sapper

Posts: 1219

Unless one of the axis player in that game is Viper himself, i dont see any reason we cant have access to the whole replay.
2 May 2022, 10:26 AM
#131
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13353 | Subs: 1



The only thing i was wrong is about how bad the axis team was doing that game. Otherwise, the axis is, in fact, gain control of the mid vp as i said. Furthermore, the minimap at the EXACT moment of the droping and retreating of that UKF is hidden so i cant make sure but it is most likely the ukf player had not made any cap upto that point since all of his unit is at the same place.

And once more you are mistaken the UKF player has cap the fuel which was in his area of control and still managed to bring all his units together.


The third picture you post is at 3:20 which already show that allies is being pushed back on the right side and that UKF player is still recover at his base after the mass retreat with only 1 unit on the frontline (likely his 4th units). And in #120 i also said teammate will have to made up for that UKF player, look like they did and score broad show that two soviet have to do twice as much capping. I know that score broad is for the full match but upto 4 minute, three other player should have done more capture that the UKF doing drop troop.

Right side is irrelevant since the tactic is not used there.

If you look at score board it has a time stamp and it is obvious from the full length of the game 14 minutes.

As for caping of soviets its gain irrelevant since that is for the hole game say nothing about having bad map control in the early game because of this tactic. There was no bad map control in that game.


The map control issue present clearer in the previous game on red ball, btw. In the picture you named "rore5", UKF is doing his second drop, at that moment axis had completed caping their side of the map and have at least 1 fuel while allies still have 1 point not capped and it is in that UKF player's sector.

That is the issue of specific player and has little to do with tactic itself.

And OKW do cap faster when they build Kubels so it not really relevant to this tactic.
2 May 2022, 10:45 AM
#132
avatar of Support Sapper

Posts: 1219

jump backJump back to quoted post2 May 2022, 10:26 AMVipper



That is the issue of specific player and has little to do with tactic itself.


Same for the second match as it is the issue of those specific OKW players. If an OKW can only have 13 kill in a 14 minute match then Allies can win by whatever tactics. Im glad that you are starting to get it event not quite to the full extent.

jump backJump back to quoted post2 May 2022, 10:26 AMVipper

And OKW do cap faster when they build Kubels so it not really relevant to this tactic.


Im again glad that you finally aware that UKF will have way less capping power if they going for UC compare to OKW going to kubel. Still dont know why you still claim capping power is not relevant to this tactic, tho. Capping is a big factor in any opening involved UC.

2 May 2022, 11:55 AM
#135
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 840

Imo the combo should be looked.


Well there we go, the combo has been "looked", and after roughly 7 pages of dumpster fire the general consensus is it's fine.
2 May 2022, 12:04 PM
#136
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13353 | Subs: 1



Same for the second match as it is the issue of those specific OKW players. If an OKW can only have 13 kill in a 14 minute match then Allies can win by whatever tactics. Im glad that you are starting to get it event not quite to the full extent.

What happened in the rest of the game is not really relevant is the tactic is used in the first minutes. It simply shot down your argument that the tactic failed. The tactic contributed to victory contrary to your claim.


Im again glad that you finally aware that UKF will have way less capping power if they going for UC compare to OKW going to kubel. Still dont know why you still claim capping power is not relevant to this tactic, tho. Capping is a big factor in any opening involved UC.

UKF have less caping power when they build kubel regardless of what UKF builds and I have never claimed the opposite. Kubels move faster and have caping bonus. And that is part of OKW faction design which is designed as an offensive faction contrary to UKF which designed as defensive one.

The speed that a team cap the map does not have much impact in large modes since there are more player for the similar number of point and the map is caped faster.

Forcing retreat and securing point of interest if far more important than resources one can accumulate in the first 3 minutes.

Feel free to explain how building a UC is a "big factor" when one has access to CP 0 unit that come out in similar time frame with one building a IS or HMG.

Now unless you can provide in game proof that using this tactic results in important handicap in map control I suggest you drop it and move on.
2 May 2022, 12:05 PM
#137
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13353 | Subs: 1



Well there we go, the combo has been "looked", and after roughly 7 pages of dumpster fire the general consensus is it's fine.

Have you used this tactic or faced this tactic in game?
2 May 2022, 12:29 PM
#138
avatar of Support Sapper

Posts: 1219

jump backJump back to quoted post2 May 2022, 12:04 PMVipper

What happened in the rest of the game is not really relevant is the tactic is used in the first minutes. It simply shot down your argument that the tactic failed. The tactic contributed to victory contrary to your claim.


If what happen in the rest of the game and in the rest of the match is not relevant then the Ukf player's attempt of using drop troop at the fist contact had obviously failed as he have to retreat all his focre and lose control of the mid vp. He also cant reestablish frontline present for the next minute. And by that, the using of drop tactic in that specific case didn't contribute anything to the victory. I still cant see how you can describe that engagement as a success.
2 May 2022, 12:36 PM
#139
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13353 | Subs: 1



If what happen in the rest of the game and in the rest of the match is not relevant then the Ukf player's attempt of using drop troop at the fist contact had obviously failed as he have to retreat all his focre and lose control of the mid vp. And by that, the using of drop tactic in that specific case didn't contribute anything to the victory. I still cant see how you can describe that engagement as a success.

Ok you are back in "forum warrior" mode and taking thing posted out of context have a good day.

Fact it remains that tactic was used successfully in one more game even when second player a reacted and attempted to help. Controlling 1 vp hardly mattered especially in 14 minute game.

The tactic did contribute to the victory of allied team no matter how much twist you try to put on it.
2 May 2022, 13:20 PM
#140
avatar of minhuh064

Posts: 63

Then why dont you let us see the tactic in action instead of looking at your pictures and trying to imagine what happens?
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