Penals PPSH

Jump back to quoted post23 Mar 2022, 14:15 PMrumartinez89

....Like you said the biggest difference is lack of utility, adding OORAH or smoke nade would make it an actual useful upgrade.
...

Jump back to quoted post23 Mar 2022, 16:18 PMVipper

PPSh penal are not bad as unit they simply have little role in the commander.

One has already SVT conscripts and Air G for AI and Shock troops Ass G are simply better (although more expensive) if one is looking for SMG troops.

If Penal get ourah or smoke grenade they would have to have the satchel replaced since the combo is bad.

Jump back to quoted post23 Mar 2022, 16:42 PMrumartinez89

Yea it would be a bit much, maybe replacing satchel for smoke and flame nade like VG would be cool. If not just smoke for satchel would be good since other Penal could be used for the satchel charge.

Are you sure AssG are better than PPSH Penals? I would have to look for the video but Tightrope did testing and PPSH Cons could beat a AssG when both were vetted unless the AssG had 6th man. Penals would get 2 more PPSHs and better offensive vet.
EDIT: Found the video, PPSH won unvetted and lost against 6man ASSG.


As to the Shocks/Airborne I completely agree which is why I would want the other commanders to have a small change since they do not have Elite inf in them.

Jump back to quoted post23 Mar 2022, 14:15 PMrumartinez89

Dont Penals and Volks have the same RA when vetted(according to march 2021 patch notes), both come out to a target size of .77.
Cost from 300 to 290
Reinforce time from 5.4 to 4.5
Veterancy 3 weapon accuracy from +30% to +20%
Veterancy 2 Received accuracy from -15% to -23%

Jump back to quoted post23 Mar 2022, 15:13 PMHannibal

You're actually right on this one. I just quickly looked it up on serealia and the site was not updated for the Penal change. My bad.

Jump back to quoted post23 Mar 2022, 18:21 PMSkysTheLimit

I think Hannibal was comparing mp40 volks and ppsh penals. In that instance volks start out with .93 target size once they get the mp40 upgrade, and they end with .72 after vet. So it is sightly better than penals

Not that an extra man and "to the last man" doesn't help penals too, but I think mp40 volks are still a little better cqc w/ the smoke nade

Jump back to quoted post23 Mar 2022, 19:20 PMrumartinez89

I know Serealia hasn't been updated in a while but they still show the target size to be 1, not sure if the data should be the MP40 or MP44.

Jump back to quoted post23 Mar 2022, 19:41 PMSkysTheLimit

That's just for regular volks. No upgrades

Once the mp40 upgrade finishes, their target size goes to .93:

Volksgrenadier Assault Package
Volksgrenadier infantry can buy the upgrade to change their role and support the aggressive nature of the doctrine.

- Equips all squad members with MP40’s; Assault Grenadier variant
- Unlocks Smoke and HE grenade
- Takes up both weapon slots
- Mutually exclusive with STG upgrade
- Removes access to Flame Grenade
- Requires a truck to be set up
- Grants 0.93 received accuracy to the squad
- Costs 45 munitions

Jump back to quoted post23 Mar 2022, 20:01 PMrumartinez89

Cool, I stand corrected. Not a bad upgrade for 45muni. I think making the CQC combat package in the commanders I listed earlier along with a smoke nade or Oorah would make Penals just as viable as or better than VGMP40 or AssGrens.

One thing I have been wondering, why do Assault Guards only get 3 Thompsons? Was it due to merge/synergy with conscripts. They seems to be better on paper than Airborne PPSH until you need to get close to whatever your assaulting. The lack of smoke or camo for an elite unit is killer.

Jump back to quoted post23 Mar 2022, 20:01 PMrumartinez89

Cool, I stand corrected. Not a bad upgrade for 45muni. I think making the CQC combat package in the commanders I listed earlier along with a smoke nade or Oorah would make Penals just as viable as or better than VGMP40 or AssGrens.

Jump back to quoted post23 Mar 2022, 20:25 PMVipper

Well you do not need to get closer...They have good DPS at mid range.

Jump back to quoted post23 Mar 2022, 21:05 PMrumartinez89

But they have better DPS at short range along with a short range nade. I think most would assume Assaulting means to move up close and attack. However the point of the question was more in comparison to Rangers and Paratroopers that get 4 Thompsons. I know they are different factions by why the difference upgrade? At close range, the Assault Guards are no better than Airborne while lacking the ability to move in or hide. Yes they are better at mid range but out of all Soviet elites they seem to have the least upside. Shocks can assault better, Reg Guards have more versatility and better long range, Airborne are better short range and long range.

Jump back to quoted post23 Mar 2022, 22:58 PMVipper

As far as I can remember As. Gu. would beat Rangers once vetted (before the M1 changes) and they probably still do.

They are also CP 2 instead of CP 3 and come with grenade barrage.

As for Penals vet 1 bonus it is actually a weird buff since it work better in prolonged fights. One should can gain the most of it from long range cover to cover fights where where is there is less RNG.